20mph Did you know, FACT!

[rareposter]

Limits in parks, sea fronts and so on tend to be set under bye laws and the like, and therefore often do cover bikes.

Richmond Park in particular have had long and protracted legal arguments about whether or not the laws / byelaws there apply to bikes. Very occasionally they have high profile "crackdowns" on cyclists, usually applying fines orders of magnitude higher than any motorist would ever receive and then a year or so down the line the case will be quietly dropped.

Back in late 2021 the Met Police confirmed that cyclists could not be prosecuted for speeding in the Park and the Royal Parks rather reluctantly issued a statement confirming that but asking all cyclists to abide by it anyway.

Then in mid 2023 they issued a much more strongly worded statement implying (although not actually outright stating) that they'd be applying speed limits much more strictly in future for all road users including cyclists. That coincided with the installation of various traffic calming measures which have naturally done nothing whatsoever to improve safety - quite the reverse in fact.

[drossall]

I've heard about Richmond Park. Not being local, I don't have any special knowledge though. It is a bit confusing. Surely the enforcement relies either on national speed laws, in which case bikes aren't covered, or on byelaws, in which case it's whatever the byelaw says. If they haven't worked out which law they're enforcing, then they aren't even past first base.

I suppose it could be a byelaw that refers to "vehicles". That generally does include bikes, although I'm no legal expert and there may be exceptions. Maybe it needs someone to be taken to court to resolve it finally

[Sum]

Speed limits in Richmond Park, Bushy Park, The Green Park, Greenwich Park, Hyde Park, St James’s Park, and The Regent’s Park are governed by The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations 1997 (as amended up to 2020), not by byelaws.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639

The speed limits are laid out in Schedule 2 of The Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations 1997 and refer to vehicles, not motor vehicles or mechanically propelled vehicles e.g.:-

"Acts in a Park for which written permission is required
4. Unless the Secretary of State’s written permission has first been obtained, no person using a Park shall—
...
(28) drive or ride any vehicle on a Park road in excess of the speed specified in relation to that road in Part II of Schedule 2 to these Regulations;"
...

SCHEDULE 2
THE DRIVING AND RIDING OF VEHICLES ON A PARK ROAD
...
PART 2
Speeds at which a vehicle may be driven or ridden on a Park road
1. On a Park road in Bushy Park, The Green Park, Greenwich Park, Hyde Park (other than the Serpentine Road), St James’s Park, The Regent’s Park or Richmond Park, at a speed not exceeding 20 mph.
2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
3. On the Serpentine Road in Hyde Park, and on the Park road from Kingston Gate leading to the Home Park Golf Club in Hampton Court Park, at a speed not exceeding 15 mph.
4. On a Park road (other than one mentioned in paragraphs 1 ... or 3), at a speed not exceeding 10 mph."

NB An amendment to the regs in March 2010 had included the definition: '“vehicle” means a mechanically propelled vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road.' https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ion/1/made

However the definition was revoked in the November 2010 amendment: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ion/2/made

Edit: NB for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying that the Royal Parks speed limits apply to cyclists. Indeed the current position is that they do not. The police do however enforce a regulation stipulating that you must not ride in a manner that would endanger the safety of other park visitors or yourself, and speeding can form part of that.

[drossall]

If then the situation is the same in all the Royal Parks, but it's only in Richmond Park that problems arise, is that simply because that's where cyclists tend to congregate for training? As I said, I don't know Richmond Park at all, but I have used the Carriage Drives and then cut across Kensington Gardens as a route from central London to the Hammersmith area, on various occasions. I've not detected any issues there, but then I've not seen cyclists going that fast either. There is the odd downhill, especially to the south-west corner of Kensington Gardens, but not a lot of distance to build up speed, and a gate to get through!

[Psamathe]

Any regulations about the max. speed of horses? I assume a horse is not a "vehicle" (it's an animal) but being hit by a fast moving horse will probably mean far worse injuries than a cycle.

I've never cycled in these parks, have no idea if fast moving horses are a problem and on roads round me 99% of horse riders are not a problem (but might frustrate a carbon based life form).

Ian

[drossall]

Probably not. Historically, no-one really considered speed limits seriously until motor vehicles made them necessary. Which is probably why Parliament made the laws that it did. Road casualties were way higher than they are now, especially when you adjust for traffic levels.

To be fair, there were lots of complaints at the end of the 19C and start of the 20C about "scorchers" (fast cyclists), but it was the problems of motor vehicles that led to action. So you wouldn't really expect speed limits for horses. Of course, there were complaints about those in their turn (from everyone else, which basically meant pedestrians), but given that all the people who could make laws had horses...

[Sum]

Any regulations about the max. speed of horses? ...

Not in general that I'm aware of. Whilst perusing through the Royal Parks regs I did note

"Acts prohibited in a Park
3. Subject to the provisions of regulation 6, no person using a Park shall—

(1) intentionally or recklessly interfere with the safety, comfort or convenience of any person using a Park in accordance with these Regulations;
...
(10) (a) ride any animal,
(b) drive or ride any vehicle, or
(c) use any pedal cycle, roller skate, roller blade, skate board or other foot-propelled device
in any manner that endangers or is likely to endanger any person;"

So endangering any person by horse, cycle, 'vehicle' etc. is prohibited (obviously). I think it is these particular regs that are now used to crack down on bad cycling behaviours.

NB it is settled law that a pedal cycle is a vehicle Ellis -v- Nott-Bower (1895) but the legislation here makes specific separate provision for cycles in the above regs, and seems to distinguish them from vehicles. The same is true in para (11) prohibiting riding/driving at night, or in seriously reduced visibility during the day, without lights. It does seem that the legislators did not intend cycles to be treated as vehicles here.

I also see the same point was made by Thirdcrank in 2008 (in fact I've just plagiarised some of their words): viewtopic.php?p=117590#p117590

[jgurney]

Any regulations about the max. speed of horses?

Under the Town Police Clauses Act 1847 it is illegal to ride a horse "furiously" on a public highway. The most recent prosecution for this which I have found was in 2014 when one Elizabeth Millard, aged 65, of Woking was convicted after complaints that she had been galloping around on bridleways in the Horsell area, alarming pedestrians and other equestrians.

[drossall]

Same as for bikes then. You're expected to ride considerately, but no specific limits as for cars.

[mjr]

To be fair, there were lots of complaints at the end of the 19C and start of the 20C about "scorchers" (fast cyclists), but it was the problems of motor vehicles that led to action. So you wouldn't really expect speed limits for horses. Of course, there were complaints about those in their turn (from everyone else, which basically meant pedestrians), but given that all the people who could make laws had horses...

And it wasn't human road casualties that led to speed limits, but injuries to those horses ridden by the nobility, which were being injured stumbling across the deep ruts formed on corners by motor vehicles cornering so fast that they were cutting up the soft roads. I think there's also mention in Hansard of the inconvenience of waiting for walkers to scramble onto the footway across the ruts.

[mattheus]

If then the situation is the same in all the Royal Parks, but it's only in Richmond Park that problems arise, is that simply because that's where cyclists tend to congregate for training?

I've only been through a couple of time since it became the local roadie "Mecca", but basically yes!