Should electric bikes go faster

[L+1]

...E-bikes that don't require pedalling sound like m'cycles to me!

...

The ban on throttles makes no sense, it doesn't improve safety in any way, all it does is make life more difficult for people who have difficulty pedalling.

The problem with throttles, particularly on higher powered bikes is that they allow a rider to move off without even a pretence of pedalling. Motorists will soon forget the low speed at which non powered cyclists resume cycling after being stationary in traffic. Where I live, the advanced stop box is already a dangerous choice, unless it’s linked to a proper ‘cyclists first’ green light.
Personally, I think enhanced power electric bicycles actively reduce the safety of non powered cyclists, on the road, because they skew motorist’s expectations of how cyclists can and will behave.

[MartinC]

......I fear this debate will keep going round in circles BECAUSE of this overlap.....

It will keep going round because the wrong question is being asked. Electric bikes can already, perfectly legally, be far more powerful, faster and not require pedalling. The question is should more powerful, faster electric bikes be registered, insured, taxed, MOT'd and ridden by an unlicenced rider? Phrasing the question a bit more sensationally, will there be a backlash in the press when someone's granny gets knocked over on a shared path by a fully laden cargo bike travelling at 25mph, with dodgy brakes and ridden by an uninsured 13 year old with poor eyesight who had an epileptic fit last week?

[mattheus]

The problem with throttles, particularly on higher powered bikes is that they allow a rider to move off without even a pretence of pedalling. Motorists will soon forget the low speed at which non powered cyclists resume cycling after being stationary in traffic. Where I live, the advanced stop box is already a dangerous choice, unless it’s linked to a proper ‘cyclists first’ green light.
Personally, I think enhanced power electric bicycles actively reduce the safety of non powered cyclists, on the road, because they skew motorist’s expectations of how cyclists can and will behave.

To be clear:
are you saying there is a serious risk of cyclists in Advanced Stop Boxes being rear-ended by impatient drivers [accelerating from a standstill] behind them?

[MartinC]

I think L+1 is. Which very neatly exposes where all this is going. We can ease the constraints on ebikes so they don't hold up cars and then ban (or make their use untenable) acoustic bikes from the road because the are dangerous and redundant/old fashioned/irrelevant.

[L+1]

To be clear:
are you saying there is a serious risk of cyclists in Advanced Stop Boxes being rear-ended by impatient drivers [accelerating from a standstill] behind them?

Yes, exactly that. That is already my experience ( drivers moving too early/expecting cycles to be making quicker progress from stationary). Do you enjoy using them?

Most often, the advanced stop boxes I see require filtering through traffic to access, and then you have to hope they are not already occupied by motor vehicles which have advanced over their stop line. So even getting to a good position at the head of the queue, in full view of motorised traffic is difficult.

But the point I’m making about throttled/non pedalling ‘bicycles’ becoming the norm, is that motorists will quickly come to expect a rapid, pedal free start from stationary for all cycles they experience. Non powered cycling, on the road in mixed traffic, will become more dangerous as a result.
I understand that some legitimate pedal cyclists depend on an assisted start in certain circumstances but I believe many motorists will not adequately assess the different capabilities of the variety of ‘cyclists’ they encounter.

And yes, thank you MartinC… for posting more quickly. Non powered cycling will become a very niche activity in some areas. Perhaps it will be self censorship, but cycling on road on a non powered bicycle will become a rarity, enhancing the danger as motorists become even less aware of non powered cyclists capabilities.

[djnotts]

I think L+1 is. Which very neatly exposes where all this is going. We can ease the constraints on ebikes so they don't hold up cars and then ban (or make their use untenable) acoustic bikes from the road because the are dangerous and redundant/old fashioned/irrelevant.

This. And the investment, as patchy and often useless as it is, in cycle paths, routes etc will be heralded as a justification for banning bicycles per se from an ever increasing number of roads. All A roads first and easy target. Any with a speed limit over 30 mph. No need for any tech niceties in enforcement (although that will be minimal). Dressed up as a safety issue.

[mattheus]

To be clear:
are you saying there is a serious risk of cyclists in Advanced Stop Boxes being rear-ended by impatient drivers [accelerating from a standstill] behind them?

Yes, exactly that. That is already my experience ( drivers moving too early/expecting cycles to be making quicker progress from stationary). Do you enjoy using them?

PERSONALLY i've never had this problem.

But I can imagine it depends enormously on your regular route (and traffic conditions). I have other issues to concern me on my commute!

IMHO this idea that drivers will become confused by the minority of slower cyclists seems like speculation to me. Drivers aren't confused by tractors or Doddery Dorises, and the current cadre of cyclists vary enormously in speed/acceleration.
I'll need some more convincing on this one .. TBD ...