Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Pebble
Posts: 2014
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Pebble »

Jdsk wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:56am
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:52am
Vorpal wrote: 12 Apr 2024, 1:28pm
But very often, the names of the people involved are public, or readily available. This means that if you have details of the road traffic crash, you effectively have personal details.
I'm sure it would be very simple to redact those and create an anonymous version
Unnamed is easy, but do you mean unidentified or unidentifiable? (It's a well-known problem in reuse of medical data for research etc.)

As usual comparison with commercial aviation is helpful.

Jonathan
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Bonefishblues »

Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Jdsk wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:56am
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:52am
I'm sure it would be very simple to redact those and create an anonymous version
Unnamed is easy, but do you mean unidentified or unidentifiable? (It's a well-known problem in reuse of medical data for research etc.)

As usual comparison with commercial aviation is helpful.

Jonathan
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
Indeed. They can be easily obtained by the prurient, as Vorpal & Jonathan explained.
Pebble
Posts: 2014
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Pebble »

Bonefishblues wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 12:20pm
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Jdsk wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:56am
Unnamed is easy, but do you mean unidentified or unidentifiable? (It's a well-known problem in reuse of medical data for research etc.)

As usual comparison with commercial aviation is helpful.

Jonathan
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
Indeed. They can be easily obtained by the prurient, as Vorpal & Jonathan explained.
so you are suggesting they don't publish the details of how and why an accident occurred in case someone uses them for sexual gratification ?

total and utter nonsense
Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Bonefishblues »

Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 12:55pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 12:20pm
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
Indeed. They can be easily obtained by the prurient, as Vorpal & Jonathan explained.
so you are suggesting they don't publish the details of how and why an accident occurred in case someone uses them for sexual gratification ?

total and utter nonsense
No I am not, as you well know.
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by cycle tramp »

Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Jdsk wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:56am
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:52am
I'm sure it would be very simple to redact those and create an anonymous version
Unnamed is easy, but do you mean unidentified or unidentifiable? (It's a well-known problem in reuse of medical data for research etc.)

As usual comparison with commercial aviation is helpful.

Jonathan
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
I don't think we need to know the details, the risks and strategies of reducing the incidents of such collisions are already known, and should already be practised.

Given that on a separate thread a first time poster advised they cycled into the back of a stationary van... if the deceased had ridden into a car door which was already open... a further question should be asked - are handlebars being set too low to allow the rider the full view of the road ahead.
Obtaing a more comfortable riding position https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/how- ... p-bar-bike
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by mattheus »

peetee wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 11:50am For the most part, no. There will be incidents that directly result in physical trauma because of impact with cyclist or other objects such and the ground but I very much doubt that the care system is recording all of these as due to interactions with cyclist that are riding where they shouldn’t be.
In addition there will be a great number of stress related reactions immediately or after the event that result in physical or mental trauma that are not treated or connected directly to the incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9JfPQu189Y
The car crashed through a wall at Beacon Primary School in Everton, Liverpool, just before 08:30 BST, Merseyside Police said.
Pebble
Posts: 2014
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Pebble »

cycle tramp wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 10:22pm
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Jdsk wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 8:56am
Unnamed is easy, but do you mean unidentified or unidentifiable? (It's a well-known problem in reuse of medical data for research etc.)

As usual comparison with commercial aviation is helpful.

Jonathan
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
I don't think we need to know the details, the risks and strategies of reducing the incidents of such collisions are already known, and should already be practised.
Clearly from this thread there is an interest in knowing, I like to know so as I can better risk asses.

And clearly from the vast amounts of accidents that result in unacceptably high KSI numbers, society has not got to grips with these things yet let alone good practise being observed
peetee
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Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by peetee »

mattheus wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 10:33am
peetee wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 11:50am For the most part, no. There will be incidents that directly result in physical trauma because of impact with cyclist or other objects such and the ground but I very much doubt that the care system is recording all of these as due to interactions with cyclist that are riding where they shouldn’t be.
In addition there will be a great number of stress related reactions immediately or after the event that result in physical or mental trauma that are not treated or connected directly to the incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9JfPQu189Y
The car crashed through a wall at Beacon Primary School in Everton, Liverpool, just before 08:30 BST, Merseyside Police said.
I'm sorry but I fail to see the connection.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by mattheus »

peetee wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 1:53pm
mattheus wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 10:33am
peetee wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 11:50am For the most part, no. There will be incidents that directly result in physical trauma because of impact with cyclist or other objects such and the ground but I very much doubt that the care system is recording all of these as due to interactions with cyclist that are riding where they shouldn’t be.
In addition there will be a great number of stress related reactions immediately or after the event that result in physical or mental trauma that are not treated or connected directly to the incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9JfPQu189Y
The car crashed through a wall at Beacon Primary School in Everton, Liverpool, just before 08:30 BST, Merseyside Police said.
I'm sorry but I fail to see the connection.
And that is part of the problem.
Vorpal
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Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Vorpal »

Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 12:55pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 12:20pm
Pebble wrote: 13 Apr 2024, 11:27am
Publish the details of the accident so we can learn by what and how they happened - no need to publish the names of those involved.
Indeed. They can be easily obtained by the prurient, as Vorpal & Jonathan explained.
so you are suggesting they don't publish the details of how and why an accident occurred in case someone uses them for sexual gratification ?

total and utter nonsense
The crux of problem is that media publish information that includes the names of the victims, drivers, dates, etc. Even if they don't give precise locations, it can often be discerned.

If you subsequently can read a report about a crash at the junction of such and such on these dates involving a cyclist and the driver of a Ford Focus, it is all too easy to connect the newspaper report with the details given in the investigation report.

When it is a simple crash involving common models of car, it's probably not so easy to figure out. But when it involves less common models, a rural road where crashes are relatively rare, a less common mode of transport, such as a cyclist or equestrian, it might be rather simple to get the names of the people involved.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
mattheus
Posts: 5227
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by mattheus »

The car crashed through a wall at Beacon Primary School in Everton, Liverpool, just before 08:30 BST, Merseyside Police said.
road_pavement_school.PNG
Road
Pavement
School

Note the bit in the middle.
Pebble
Posts: 2014
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by Pebble »

Vorpal wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 3:37pm
The crux of problem is that media publish information that includes the names of the victims, drivers, dates, etc. Even if they don't give precise locations, it can often be discerned.

If you subsequently can read a report about a crash at the junction of such and such on these dates involving a cyclist and the driver of a Ford Focus, it is all too easy to connect the newspaper report with the details given in the investigation report.

When it is a simple crash involving common models of car, it's probably not so easy to figure out. But when it involves less common models, a rural road where crashes are relatively rare, a less common mode of transport, such as a cyclist or equestrian, it might be rather simple to get the names of the people involved.
if the names have already been published then what is the problem. If there is some privacy issue then stop the media publishing the names.
peetee
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Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by peetee »

mattheus wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 2:45pm
And that is part of the problem.
That was a long way from being helpful.
I feel I’m being mocked so do please enlighten me.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
mattheus
Posts: 5227
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by mattheus »

peetee wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 7:41pm
mattheus wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 2:45pm
And that is part of the problem.
That was a long way from being helpful.
I feel I’m being mocked so do please enlighten me.
I'm not mocking you.

You've been saying how pavements are dangerous/scary places for pedestrians. I posted a news story from this week showing how dangerous car drivers make our pavements*. I look forward to your expressions of concern about this issue.

*and also the interiors of shops, houses and schools ...
peetee
Posts: 4352
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Cyclist dies after crashing into open car door

Post by peetee »

mattheus wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 8:41am
peetee wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 7:41pm
mattheus wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 2:45pm
And that is part of the problem.
That was a long way from being helpful.
I feel I’m being mocked so do please enlighten me.
I'm not mocking you.

You've been saying how pavements are dangerous/scary places for pedestrians. I posted a news story from this week showing how dangerous car drivers make our pavements*. I look forward to your expressions of concern about this issue.

*and also the interiors of shops, houses and schools ...
Ah, I see. Perhaps we are at cross purposes. The Anfield incident, as originally covered by the press involves a car crossing a pavement. It’s not unreasonable to assume it was out of control, given that it collided with a building.
My post centres on the deliberate actions of individuals by cycling, and guiding motorised vehicles, along a pavement rather than the road, without due consideration for their proximity to pedestrians - some of which will inevitably have diminished awareness or mobility due to age or infirmity. It’s not unreasonable to expect such individuals to be startled or confused and react in such a way as to be injured mentally or physically by the encounter. By way of example, an elderly person is surprised by a scooter rider passing them at speed. They are shaken, and strain their neck and back in a reflex reaction. They are also frightened and refrain from going out again for several days.
A minor incident, you might say. Indeed, but harmful nonetheless and there will be any number of combinations of interactions resulting in harm all the way up to fatalities when pedestrians and conveyances piloted by inconsiderate individuals share the same space.
I would be very surprised if the majority of such incidents are listed on statistical records.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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