BEVs

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

I appreciate the BEV mostly because they...

cost less to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car
9
12%
are reducing the harm done to our planet and its lifeforms
10
14%
are quiet and smooth
7
10%
can be refuelled with my own renewable energy production
10
14%
can supply energy to the home and Grid
4
5%
No! I am concerned they are just another way of making the car seem acceptable
33
45%
 
Total votes: 73

sjs
Posts: 1323
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 10:08pm
Location: Hitchin

Re: BEVs

Post by sjs »

Braceby wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 11:43am Who here actually has a BEV? It'd been interesting to hear of makes, models and experiences.
Tesla M3LR, company car from new in 2020. Now about 40k on the clock. Generally quite nice to drive. Build quality and reliability poor. Never had a car removed from my drive by crane before.
sjs
Posts: 1323
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 10:08pm
Location: Hitchin

Re: BEVs

Post by sjs »

Which was annoying, the garden having been re-done only weeks previously
Carlton green
Posts: 3789
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Carlton green »

sjs wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 9:10pm
Braceby wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 11:43am Who here actually has a BEV? It'd been interesting to hear of makes, models and experiences.
Tesla M3LR, company car from new in 2020. Now about 40k on the clock. Generally quite nice to drive. Build quality and reliability poor. Never had a car removed from my drive by crane before.
:lol: :lol: Well, real world experience was asked for and that’s real world.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Biospace
Posts: 2124
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Carlton green wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 2:32pm
Biospace wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 12:32pm I currently don't own one but have driven several BEVs over thousands of miles. Does this count?
:D Only saying how wonderful they are is allowed, anything else is unhelpful FUD :wink: .
:wink:

from Wikipedia:
Fear, uncertainty and doubt is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, talk radio, politics, cults, and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.

If the suggestion is that this is my 'strategy', it is rather sad that some don't see how absurd it is that highlighting and quantifying pollution associated with the ICEv is a good thing, but to do the same for a battery powered vehicle is a form of deception.

It does appear that "The Climate" and other modern concerns have become a form of high religion for some, so that anyone daring to utter anything which can be construed as somehow not fully in line with the most devout thinking is a heretic worthy of condemnation.
Jdsk
Posts: 25375
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

"Nissan Micra EV to debut later this year as new low-cost electric car":
https://electrek.co/2024/04/18/nissan-m ... ctric-car/

Jonathan
Biospace
Posts: 2124
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Biospace wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 12:32pm
Braceby wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 11:43am Who here actually has a BEV? It'd been interesting to hear of makes, models and experiences.
I currently don't own one but have driven several BEVs over thousands of miles. Does this count?

Some of these experiences are dotted around the thread but it would be easier to condense these into one post so I'll post something up in the next day or so.

My brief summary of experiences with electric cars:
  • Renault Zoë
    Good: for an EV, light and charming - less good: rear legroom
  • Nissan Leaf
    Good: Sunderland build quality, great design - less good: rear seating position
  • Tesla S
    Good: motor technology - less good: overall, rough edged (regardless of price)
  • MG.4
    Good: value, specs - less good: interior, forced labour and genocide
  • Kia Nero
    Good: economical, nice cabin - less good: cabin/road noise
  • Hyundai Kona (only as a passenger)
    Good: economical - less good: cabin/road noise
  • BMW i3
    Good: high quality engineering, design and production - less good: avoid models with scooter ICE

Based only on what I've driven, a general criticism would be that what were once simple controls which could be adjusted by feel alone are now often accessed through touchscreens, much less easy to adjust while driving. This doesn't only apply to BEVs, but they do seem particularly prone to the 'minimalist' interior.

For me, the i3 stands out above all others. Although now an older design, it feels timeless and the most modern of all the BEVs I've driven. Interesting fact - its tyres are proportionally narrower than those of a Citroën 2cv.

Teslas have been reported as improving continually, so the 2018-ish model I've driven may well not have the same unpleasant aspects as a new(er) model. However, I'd still be cautious about buying a car intended for the American home market to use in the British Isles.
reohn2
Posts: 45206
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 4:53pm
reohn2 wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 4:42pm
Cowsham wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 12:51pm The older ic cars had bigger engines the choices of new cars we were presented with had tiny engines beating themselves to death with Turbo chargers driving electric motors to propel the thing. Some of these small engines have cam belts running in the oil inside the engine! It just all sounds daft from an engineering POV but I maybe proved wrong with time they may prove reliable enough. I've been wrong before about reliability of stuff ( amstrad vcr's was one time ) but not often.
Which cars were these?
I'm unaware of any cars with cambelts running in oil inside the engine,I am aware of chaindriven cams though.
Known as "wet belts" or "belts in oil".

https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/se ... /cam-belts
https://garagewire.co.uk/news/company/d ... ent-guide/
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answ ... ch-engine-

Jonathan
One fleet owner operator's experience with wet belts on Ford Transit vans:- https://youtu.be/Nog_0Oe7Z_M?si=NBTUFtyRNBlJIzO1
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Braceby
Posts: 71
Joined: 29 Mar 2024, 8:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Braceby »

sjs wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 9:10pm
Braceby wrote: 18 Apr 2024, 11:43am Who here actually has a BEV? It'd been interesting to hear of makes, models and experiences.
Tesla M3LR, company car from new in 2020. Now about 40k on the clock. Generally quite nice to drive. Build quality and reliability poor. Never had a car removed from my drive by crane before.
Yes, I've looked at Teslas and the build quality is abysmal. If the bits you can see are that bad , what on earth are the bits you can't see like.
Jdsk
Posts: 25375
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 1:04pm
Cowsham wrote: 10 Apr 2024, 12:51pm The older ic cars had bigger engines the choices of new cars we were presented with had tiny engines beating themselves to death with Turbo chargers driving electric motors to propel the thing. Some of these small engines have cam belts running in the oil inside the engine! It just all sounds daft from an engineering POV but I maybe proved wrong with time they may prove reliable enough. I've been wrong before about reliability of stuff ( amstrad vcr's was one time ) but not often.
I can't see any reason to suggest that you're wrong on reliability. There are millions of BEVs out there, many of the components have been in widespread use for decades, and for some reason there's a lot of people trying to find straws to clutch (!) so that we'd very quickly know of anything suspicious.
Maintenance and repair costs, USA, 1 to 5 years and 6 to 10 years, from Consumer Reports:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/ca ... 854979198/

Screenshot 2024-04-23 at 10.49.09.png
Click to enlarge.

Jonathan
Biospace
Posts: 2124
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Braceby wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 8:28am Yes, I've looked at Teslas and the build quality is abysmal. If the bits you can see are that bad , what on earth are the bits you can't see like.
Ironically it's the bits you can't see which is where the quality lies.

One problem which isn't going to go away which I see is trying to produce a general purpose family car with Porsche-like power which sells for barely more than a Chinese MG, in so many respects their cars deserve an upmarket image as so much of their engineering is spectacularly good, but a poor ride and interior quality make this almost pointless for most.

It appears that Musk hired some of the best European engineers in the industry for what he considered the important parts and left other aspects such as interior trim qualities and ride to others, or perhaps simply saved money on these aspects.

It's very difficult to achieve a good ride as well as safe high speed handling when there is so much power and torque to be dealt with.
francovendee
Posts: 3176
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: BEVs

Post by francovendee »

I wonder if the shiny BEV that you follow on a motorway is more likely to be a company car than a privately owned one?
Maybe the same as non BEV's ?
Jdsk
Posts: 25375
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 8:07am I wonder if the shiny BEV that you follow on a motorway is more likely to be a company car than a privately owned one?
Maybe the same as non BEV's ?
The data should be available, both from the tax accounts and the specialist literature, but I haven't found a good summary... yet.

Of course the introduction of BEVs has been led from the expensive end of the market. But we'll now see it change rapidly to include smaller cheaper and preowned CLOs.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 25 Apr 2024, 2:05pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cowsham
Posts: 5164
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Cowsham »

Biospace wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 6:56pm
Braceby wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 8:28am Yes, I've looked at Teslas and the build quality is abysmal. If the bits you can see are that bad , what on earth are the bits you can't see like.
Ironically it's the bits you can't see which is where the quality lies.

One problem which isn't going to go away which I see is trying to produce a general purpose family car with Porsche-like power which sells for barely more than a Chinese MG, in so many respects their cars deserve an upmarket image as so much of their engineering is spectacularly good, but a poor ride and interior quality make this almost pointless for most.

It appears that Musk hired some of the best European engineers in the industry for what he considered the important parts and left other aspects such as interior trim qualities and ride to others, or perhaps simply saved money on these aspects.

It's very difficult to achieve a good ride as well as safe high speed handling when there is so much power and torque to be dealt with.
A car geek petrol head from work who always has the latest and highest spec big BMW remarked on the quality of the interior of our humble Nissan leaf tekna a while ago when I gave him a lift to work cos his big BM couldn't make it out of his sloping driveway on the ice or he didn't want to get it dirty.

In fairness it is quite nice inside but I'm not impressed with the fit of body panels on the outside but again this is true of many other cars produced ATM -- most look thrown together compared to cars made 20 years previous.
I am here. Where are you?
Braceby
Posts: 71
Joined: 29 Mar 2024, 8:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Braceby »

Biospace wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 6:56pm
Braceby wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 8:28am Yes, I've looked at Teslas and the build quality is abysmal. If the bits you can see are that bad , what on earth are the bits you can't see like.
Ironically it's the bits you can't see which is where the quality lies.

One problem which isn't going to go away which I see is trying to produce a general purpose family car with Porsche-like power which sells for barely more than a Chinese MG, in so many respects their cars deserve an upmarket image as so much of their engineering is spectacularly good, but a poor ride and interior quality make this almost pointless for most.

It appears that Musk hired some of the best European engineers in the industry for what he considered the important parts and left other aspects such as interior trim qualities and ride to others, or perhaps simply saved money on these aspects.

It's very difficult to achieve a good ride as well as safe high speed handling when there is so much power and torque to be dealt with.
To know that you've obviously dismantled a Tesla to look at the mechanical/electrical bits. I haven't, so must bow to your superior knowledge.
Biospace
Posts: 2124
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Braceby wrote: 25 Apr 2024, 3:07pm To know that you've obviously dismantled a Tesla to look at the mechanical/electrical bits. I haven't, so must bow to your superior knowledge.
I've studied a rear sub-assembly which had been removed from a Model S, it was more Porsche than Pontiac. Had I done the spanner work myself to remove it, I would have seen even more.

Less impressive is how Tesla have previously tried to save money on control arm sourcing/manufacture, to the point they were experiencing premature failures around the balljoints.
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