UK Politics

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Jdsk
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 5:59pm The campaigns of the Labour candidates for Mayor in London and Greater Manchester don't do anything near to that. But their announcements and campaigns do show some differences from the national party line. And Khan is pretty outspoken about the EU and internationalism (which I welcome).
And as soon as I clicked Submit...

Thousands of voters in the May local elections are at risk of being disenfranchised because of “cynical” rule changes that make photo ID compulsory, Labour’s metro mayors argue.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nfranchise

That's a whole new powerbase.

Jonathan
geocycle
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Re: UK Politics

Post by geocycle »

I wonder if the migration situation could start to change. At the moment we have near full employment and unless productivity increases GDP growth could be limited by workforce. We are also seeing demographic change with primary school classes closing. With an aging population we need more young people to pay our pensions.
Braceby
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Braceby »

Jdsk wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 5:53pm
Braceby wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 5:43pm
Jdsk wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 11:09am Luke 15:7?
But he hasn't repented. In the article you link to he says "I am a proud Conservative" - and there's another sin, pride.
The point that I was trying to make was about dissociation from national party politics, regardless of which party it is on this occasion. This is pretty unusual in English politics.

And the biblical reference was intended as a joke. But Luke 8:4.

Jonathan
Street's distancing himself from the Conservative party is merely political expediency. If Sunak was widely popular he'd be inviting up to Brum for photo opportunities.
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al_yrpal
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Re: UK Politics

Post by al_yrpal »

Who would be a first time buyer?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87zgx42m5go

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Who would be a first time buyer?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87zgx42m5go
The analyses to which that refers are:

Building Societies Association: "BSA calls for radical change to fix broken housing market":
A new report from the Building Societies Association has found that significant changes are required if we are to help prospective first-time buyers get onto the property ladder in the current housing market.
https://www.bsa.org.uk/media-centre/pre ... ing-market

The Resolution Foundation:
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/pu ... k-q1-2024/
https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/our-work/housing/

I strongly recommend the Housing Outlook, which includes:
We start by noting that a large share of households in the UK are outright owners with no housing costs other than maintenance, distorting straightforward spending comparisons with countries that may have very different tenure mixes. But when we look at actual and imputed rents (a much more sensible measure for cross-national analysis), we clearly stand out: if all UK households were paying for housing on an ongoing basis, we would devote the highest share of total spending to housing of any OECD country bar one.
What’s more, we do not appear to be getting much for our money. Overall, UK homes are more cramped, and less conveniently located for jobs, than in many comparable countries. Adding insult to injury, the UK’s housing stock is also the oldest in Europe (four-in-ten homes were built before 1946), and one of the most poorly insulated as a result.


And we shouldn't expect major improvements until we realise that a housing market based on a privately-owned property ladder shouldn't be an objective, broken or otherwise.

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Carlton green »

geocycle wrote: 21 Apr 2024, 7:51pm I wonder if the migration situation could start to change. At the moment we have near full employment and unless productivity increases GDP growth could be limited by workforce. We are also seeing demographic change with primary school classes closing. With an aging population we need more young people to pay our pensions.
Pensions are for retired people. I’ve told my children to expect the state pension retirement age to rise to seventy and I strongly suspect that, for a raft of reasons, private pension retirement ages will rise too. Anyone who has children should tell them to expect that social change and to structure their home and work life accordingly - like most changing futures it will be difficult to navigate.

The constant seeking of an ever greater GDP is flawed, we need to better understand- and act on - the flow of money in the economy, make more of what we have and make our society less dysfunctional.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

PS: One campaign in next month's elections includes as an achievement "Record affordable housing". Any guesses?

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Re: UK Politics

Post by simonineaston »

what it is with the future is this - the tories ignore all the reports * and labour won't be able to afford to action them...
* Joseph Rowntree Foundation, Henry Dimbleby, gambling reform, UK covid report, etc. etc. etc.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Carlton green
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Carlton green »

. And we shouldn't expect major improvements until we realise that a housing market based on a privately-owned property ladder shouldn't be an objective, broken or otherwise.
I don’t disagree but haven’t seen an alternative in the UK that’s both widely adopted and works well. I have seen dilapidated and socially troubled ‘council estates’, I’ve seen large property portfolios owned by the gentry who’ll charge you as much rent as possible and push you out on the street and I’ve seen tenants that’ll trash someone’s property.

I own my own home but in many ways I’d much prefer to rent one at a sensible (modest) rate. Property prices need deflating and someone - me included - will get a lot of financial pain when that happens. I would suggest that owner occupied property should loose its exemption from capitals gains tax and be equally taxed with other investments.

There is and has long been a massive shortage of accommodation to rent. As a young man I was very lucky to happen on a small home of my own to rent and had previously spent many years lodging with other folk. Now, as an old man, my wife and I would still struggle to find social housing and the best that we could hope for is an old and tiny bungalow amongst some difficult neighbours.

The housing market could be (mostly) sorted out, but politicians have neither the wit or backbone to do the ‘right things’. Admittedly sorting the property market out is a massive and fraught task, and a complete change in personal aspirations and social attitudes would also need to be involved. Would it end up being for the better? I think it could and should be but there’s always someone who’ll upset the best of arrangements with their own personal greed and thoughtlessness … just like now really.
Last edited by Carlton green on 22 Apr 2024, 9:14am, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Carlton green wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:12am
. And we shouldn't expect major improvements until we realise that a housing market based on a privately-owned property ladder shouldn't be an objective, broken or otherwise.
I don’t disagree but haven’t seen an alternative in the UK that’s both widely adopted and works well. I have seen dilapidated and socially troubled ‘council estates’, I’ve seen large property portfolios owned by the gentry who’ll charge you as much rent as possible and push you out on the street and I’ve seen tenants that’ll trash someone’s property.

I own my own home but in many ways I’d much prefer to rent one at a sensible (modest) rate. Property prices need deflating and someone - me included - will get a lot of financial pain when that happens. I would suggest that owner occupied property should loose its exemption from capitals gains tax and be equally taxed with other investments.

There is and has long been a massive shortage of accommodation to rent. As a young man I was very lucky to happen on a small home of my own to rent and had previously spent many years lodging with other folk. Now, as an old man, my wife and I would still struggle to find social housing and the best that we could hope for is an old and tiny bungalow amongst some difficult neighbours.

The housing market could be (mostly) sorted out. but politicians have neither the wit or backbone to do the ‘right things’. Admittedly sorting the property market out is a massive and fraught task, and a complete change in personal aspirations and social attitudes would also need to be involved. Would it end up being for the better? I think it could and should be but there’s always someone who’ll upset the best of arrangements with their own personal greed and thoughtlessness … just like now really.
Do you mean "sorting the housing market" or "improving the conditions in which people live"? They're very different objectives.

Thanks

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Carlton green »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:14am
Carlton green wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:12am
. And we shouldn't expect major improvements until we realise that a housing market based on a privately-owned property ladder shouldn't be an objective, broken or otherwise.
I don’t disagree but haven’t seen an alternative in the UK that’s both widely adopted and works well. I have seen dilapidated and socially troubled ‘council estates’, I’ve seen large property portfolios owned by the gentry who’ll charge you as much rent as possible and push you out on the street and I’ve seen tenants that’ll trash someone’s property.

I own my own home but in many ways I’d much prefer to rent one at a sensible (modest) rate. Property prices need deflating and someone - me included - will get a lot of financial pain when that happens. I would suggest that owner occupied property should loose its exemption from capitals gains tax and be equally taxed with other investments.

There is and has long been a massive shortage of accommodation to rent. As a young man I was very lucky to happen on a small home of my own to rent and had previously spent many years lodging with other folk. Now, as an old man, my wife and I would still struggle to find social housing and the best that we could hope for is an old and tiny bungalow amongst some difficult neighbours.

The housing market could be (mostly) sorted out. but politicians have neither the wit or backbone to do the ‘right things’. Admittedly sorting the property market out is a massive and fraught task, and a complete change in personal aspirations and social attitudes would also need to be involved. Would it end up being for the better? I think it could and should be but there’s always someone who’ll upset the best of arrangements with their own personal greed and thoughtlessness … just like now really.
Do you mean "sorting the housing market" or "improving the conditions in which people live"? They're very different objectives.

Thanks

Jonathan
My comments were primarily addressed towards home ownership (as an objective) and barely touched on the conditions of property.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
Posts: 25831
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Carlton green wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:17am
Jdsk wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:14am
Carlton green wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:12am

I don’t disagree but haven’t seen an alternative in the UK that’s both widely adopted and works well. I have seen dilapidated and socially troubled ‘council estates’, I’ve seen large property portfolios owned by the gentry who’ll charge you as much rent as possible and push you out on the street and I’ve seen tenants that’ll trash someone’s property.

I own my own home but in many ways I’d much prefer to rent one at a sensible (modest) rate. Property prices need deflating and someone - me included - will get a lot of financial pain when that happens. I would suggest that owner occupied property should loose its exemption from capitals gains tax and be equally taxed with other investments.

There is and has long been a massive shortage of accommodation to rent. As a young man I was very lucky to happen on a small home of my own to rent and had previously spent many years lodging with other folk. Now, as an old man, my wife and I would still struggle to find social housing and the best that we could hope for is an old and tiny bungalow amongst some difficult neighbours.

The housing market could be (mostly) sorted out. but politicians have neither the wit or backbone to do the ‘right things’. Admittedly sorting the property market out is a massive and fraught task, and a complete change in personal aspirations and social attitudes would also need to be involved. Would it end up being for the better? I think it could and should be but there’s always someone who’ll upset the best of arrangements with their own personal greed and thoughtlessness … just like now really.
Do you mean "sorting the housing market" or "improving the conditions in which people live"? They're very different objectives.
My comments were primarily addressed towards home ownership (as an objective) and barely touched on the conditions of property.
Thanks

Housing policies should be predominantly about the conditions in which people live, and other health issues, and energy consumption and sustainability.

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: UK Politics

Post by al_yrpal »

It has always been part of our national psyche that its desirable to have the security of owning your own home. When that means owning a large sum to a lender it may be less secure than you believe! If the value of property slumped as much as it needs to to make home ownership affordable it would break the banks. The way to do it is choke off demand by reversing population growth.


Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Nearholmer
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

Yes, it was mostly part of the national psyche because for hundreds of years being a tenant all too often meant rackrenting, poor maintenance, insecurity, or being “tied”, yet a very high percentage of the population were tenants. Social housing and tight regulation sorted out most of the down-sides of being a tenant, then “other stuff happened” from 1980 onwards.
IMG_0405.jpeg
I’ll say the counterintuitive thing that I always say at this juncture: this country isn’t short of housing space overall.

The problems are that where it is located doesn’t properly match where employment is, and, biggest issue of all, the housing space that exists is incredibly unevenly distributed, so that some people have vastly more than they could reasonably be said to need, and some people have barely enough, or even none at all. The hidden hand of the market is generous to some, while waving two fingers at others.

Another way to look at this is to realise that at no point in the past many hundred years have the typical wages of more than about half of the population been such that they could afford to buy a house on the terms available, so the stoking of the aspiration to do so has always involved fibbing. The big boost in home ownership in the 1989s and 1990s was very heavily tax-subsidised, by selling houses paid for by taxation at artificially low prices, so it created an illusion of affordability that was unsustainable in the market. That isn’t a partisan political view; it’s basic economics. The political gamble was that it would kickstart sustained economic growth, but for multiple reasons it didn’t.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 22 Apr 2024, 12:14pm, edited 3 times in total.
Braceby
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Re: UK Politics

Post by Braceby »

al_yrpal wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 11:04am It has always been part of our national psyche that its desirable to have the security of owning your own home. When that means owning a large sum to a lender it may be less secure than you believe! If the value of property slumped as much as it needs to to make home ownership affordable it would break the banks. The way to do it is choke off demand by reversing population growth.


Al
And just how are you going to stop people indulging in the very popular activity that leads to population growth?
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