Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

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Psamathe
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Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

Post by Psamathe »

ANTONISH wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 9:47am
tim-b wrote: 22 Apr 2024, 8:18am
I've lost touch with him - he's probably having a well earned retirement.
Or a break for some other reason... it can be fraud.

Cifas, which fights economic crime, says that 1 in 12 adults lie about qualifications on their CV. Knowing that, why don't organisations check?
One could ask why organisations specify a "qualification" that is not necessary to perform the task offered.
I have heard it said that it is just a sifting process.
IMO passing an examination shows that you have the ability to pass an examination but doesn't show that you can perform any useful function in the workplace.
remember that "qualification" and "examination" are often not the same. Most of my academic qualifications involved a good proportion of relevant practical eg for one a 6 month full time research project, report, viva voce, presentations, etc.. Other qualifications incluided significant elements of actually doing research projects i.e. proving you can actually do.

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simonineaston
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Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

Post by simonineaston »

Cifas, which fights economic crime, says that 1 in 12 adults lie about qualifications on their CV. Knowing that, why don't organisations check
I think we mostly have a strong sense of wanting to trust other people - plus it takes time and trouble to carry out checks.
Recently there was a fire set here in Bristol that destroyed much of a historic boat yard - turns out that the individual responsible had previous as an arsonist and at the time of the fire, actually worked at the yard. So there was much talk on the subject of why didn't they check... but its hard to imagine what could have been checked and how, when someone is pretty keen to keep certain stuff hidden. We just have to assume that most people we encounter are decent enough to tell the truth, more or less. Mostly, it all turns out alright!
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tim-b
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Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

Post by tim-b »

I have heard it said that it is just a sifting process
Isn't that the point?
CV-Library said that applications per job increased by an average 38.3% in 2023. If you're going to process a volume of applicants properly then you have to sift. Whether the organisation chooses the correct sifting criteria is another issue

If you can't fill an application form in truthfully then that says a lot about the applicant and their suitability for a job that in most cases will involve a degree of honesty.
I accept that crimes go undetected and that its practically impossible to sift out those with criminal tendencies, but an accurate CV is a start.
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Carlton green
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Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

Post by Carlton green »

tim-b wrote: 23 Apr 2024, 7:06am
I have heard it said that it is just a sifting process
Isn't that the point?
CV-Library said that applications per job increased by an average 38.3% in 2023. If you're going to process a volume of applicants properly then you have to sift. Whether the organisation chooses the correct sifting criteria is another issue

If you can't fill an application form in truthfully then that says a lot about the applicant and their suitability for a job that in most cases will involve a degree of honesty.
I accept that crimes go undetected and that its practically impossible to sift out those with criminal tendencies, but an accurate CV is a start.
My bold.

That’s the issue though isn’t it. The sifting mechanism is too often just a process to cull numbers to a smaller group size that’s easy for someone to manage. Candidates can invest time and effort in applying for a position and then find that selection processes unfairly discriminate against them. Who can honestly blame such folk for trying to battle unfair selection processes? Should folk who went to poor schools and had limited home support really be judged on the same basis as those who went to excellent schools and had every support possible? Similarly - assuming that they got that far - with University too. Are the students’ exam results and academic achievements really comparable and a fair indication of ability to do the job?

I’ve never lied on an application form but am pretty certain that many of the jobs that I've applied for never got beyond the first or second sift, and that such sifts weren’t based on ability to do the job. Discrimination happens and does so in various ways (only some of which are recognised). Was that a fair return on my time and effort? I don’t think so and I don’t think that I’m alone in having an application unfairly discarded.

On leaving University some of my young friends struggled to get past on-line tests to reach a stage at which someone might actually glance at an application. Eventually older friends helped out by analysing the first hurdle tests and once the young friends were over that hurdle they started to get interviews which turned into job offers. They have excelled at the jobs that they accepted and would never had got there but for (eventually) being helped negotiate the first (culling) hurdle. When you’re the one who’s unemployed getting an interview, where you can show that you’re a suitably able applicant, is really important.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Nearholmer
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Re: Just how long will it take to turn this ship around?

Post by Nearholmer »

It’s a difficult process from the employer’s perspective too.

Trying to get from what can sometimes be hundreds of applicants down to one person who proves to be “a real find” in the long run is seriously difficult. I was involved in it hundreds of times during my working life, from within big organisations, using best practice approaches, recruiting both graduate trainees and experienced/qualified personnel, and although the success rate in terms of finding good people was high, it certainly wasn’t 100%. It was a very costly process too, so not-successes amounted to a lot of money, time and effort wasted in recruitment, let alone the resultant treading of water in respect of work to be done by the person once “onboard”.

Incidentally, exam results tend to fall into the “necessary, but not sufficient” category in recruitment, because even for fairly niche roles, there are usually more applicants who cross the bar in terms of basic academic qualifications than there are posts, so the final choice is usually down to other things, and for grad trainees especially that is where you have to be really careful not to get overly impressed by the “polish” that comes from certain backgrounds, schools, and universities, and to get to the underlying strengths of the candidates - I found that often came out best with “set presentation plus follow-up questions” interviewing, because that gets to the core of both understanding of theory, and ability to think laterally, it can’t be bluffed, effectively.
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