Techniques for braking on steep descents

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
Jdsk
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
I proposed this for Headley Way in Oxford, something like:



Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 24 Apr 2024, 10:43am, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am ...
Or, a strap-on motor/generator and battery pack, a bit like those old strap-on “auto wheel” things that drove on the top of the front tyre? This would be charged by a descending cyclist, then passed at the bottom to an ascender. It might even take the form of a small trailer-tug, rather than actually be strapped to the bike.
Flywheels are wonderful machines. But i don't think that I've ever seen one handed over...

Jonathan
Nearholmer
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Nearholmer »

I’m imagining a very small, incredibly high-speed one, packaged in a metal sphere, behaving a bit like those quidditch thingies in HP.
mattheus
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by mattheus »

Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 1:31am Katie Kookaburra was hitting some speed
err ... the significance is?
mattheus
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by mattheus »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
LIke it!

You could also pull up fossil-powered vehicles of various kinds, thus extending our planet-saving role even further :)

[of course you'd need some form of differential/clutch/gearing/wotever, but in theory it's quite doable ... ]
rareposter
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by rareposter »

mattheus wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:45am
Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 1:31am Katie Kookaburra was hitting some speed
err ... the significance is?
She was using rim brakes and didn't die in a pile of splintered carbon?!
😉
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Cowsham
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Cowsham »

rareposter wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 7:19am
Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 1:31am Katie Kookaburra was hitting some speed going round the Yorkshire Dales in her latest video. About 8 min in.

https://youtu.be/MY93BXf3P4o?feature=shared
Great Dun Fell is one of those descents where it's easy for your speed to run away with you! The wind on there can make it quite treacherous too.

However it looks/feels quicker than it is because cos the road is so narrow.
Looks quick to me. You wouldn't need to tip off at that speed and you might be up there by yourself badly injured with a wrecked bike or worse than a wrecked bike -- a smashed mobile phone!
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Cowsham
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Cowsham »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:21am
Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
I proposed this for Headley Way in Oxford, something like:



Jonathan
You have to pay ? -- nope I'll just ride up keeps my rrr's tight.
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freiston
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by freiston »

Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 7:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:21am
Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
I proposed this for Headley Way in Oxford, something like:



Jonathan
You have to pay ? -- nope I'll just ride up keeps my rrr's tight.
From the YouTube video:
Screenshot from 2024-04-24 21-27-41.png
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
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plancashire
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:42am I’m imagining a very small, incredibly high-speed one, packaged in a metal sphere, behaving a bit like those quidditch thingies in HP.
The gyroscopic effects would be interesting to observe - from a distance.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton M3 and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
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plancashire
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by plancashire »

Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
This arrangement was used for shifting canal barges up and down a slope, sometimes with the addition of a tub and Archimedes' principle, i.e. hauling water. There's a famous one near Ironbridge. We have the Schiffshebewerk at Henrichenburg.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton M3 and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
Jdsk
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Jdsk »

plancashire wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 9:41pm
Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
This arrangement was used for shifting canal barges up and down a slope, sometimes with the addition of a tub and Archimedes' principle, i.e. hauling water. There's a famous one near Ironbridge. We have the Schiffshebewerk at Henrichenburg.
And railways, with water added to taste:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbalast_railway

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Cowsham »

plancashire wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 9:41pm
Nearholmer wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:17am How about steep inclines used regularly by cyclists be provided with a long rope and a sheave, so that a descending cyclists hooks on at the top, and transfers their potential energy to an ascending cyclist who hooks on at the bottom. Given the likely losses in such a system, both cyclists would probably need to pedal a bit, thereby satisfying the need for exercise and giving a sense of achievement?
...
This arrangement was used for shifting canal barges up and down a slope, sometimes with the addition of a tub and Archimedes' principle, i.e. hauling water. There's a famous one near Ironbridge. We have the Schiffshebewerk at Henrichenburg.
We did the Anderton Boat Lift last year -- great day out on the double width barge and down the Weaver a bit turned around and back up to the Trent and Mersey canal -- great feat of engineering. Afterwards operated by electric.
Screenshot_20240424-223852_Chrome.jpg
Foxes afloat do a very good video about it on YouTube

https://youtu.be/pWmrz-rerPc?feature=shared

I remember me da took us on a cliff railway lift in Folkstone that took passengers to and from the promenade to the sea front which operated in the same way and think it's still operating today
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Jdsk
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Jdsk »

Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:49pm We did the Anderton Boat Lift last year -- great day out on the double width barge and down the Weaver a bit turned around and back up -- great feat of engineering. Afterwards operated by electric it originally used water ballast but now I think it's got massive hydraulic rams coming up out of the river.
Lovely machine.

The first iteration also used rams:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderton_ ... and_design

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: Techniques for braking on steep descents

Post by Cowsham »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:53pm
Cowsham wrote: 24 Apr 2024, 10:49pm We did the Anderton Boat Lift last year -- great day out on the double width barge and down the Weaver a bit turned around and back up -- great feat of engineering. Afterwards operated by electric it originally used water ballast but now I think it's got massive hydraulic rams coming up out of the river.
Lovely machine.

The first iteration also used rams:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderton_ ... and_design

Jonathan
Yes just realised that watching the foxes video -- edited to correct and put link to video -- you got there before me again.
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