Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Psamathe
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:20pm
Psamathe wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:15pm ...
But also we are increasingly being told (from credible sources) that staying active and fit helps avoid many major medical issues that can affect people of breeding age (and thus a more direct impact on natural selection).
...
And the more we study the subject the more we recognise the usefulness of survivors beyond breeding age. The grandmother effect has recently been identified in giraffes!
https://www.popsci.com/animals/giraffe- ... ypothesis/

Jonathan
I thought about that aspect and thought in the interests of being brief used "a more direct impact on natural selection" in that if you are eaten by a lion you can't have more children whereas the usefulness of those beyond breeding age can be more dependent on other factors eg society, social group, available resources, etc.

Ian
Nearholmer
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Nearholmer »

One of the other things to come out of the study of remaining hunter-gatherer and subsistence agriculture societies is that people continue to make major contributions to the practical life of the group into old age, nobody retires in the sense of giving up useful work. They continue to take an active part in hunting/gathering/agriculture, and they play a big part in childcare, food preparation etc, so continue to be physically active until serious incapacitation or death. All of which sounds to me like a sort of ‘virtuous circle’ of remaining fit through necessary activity.

Mr Packham is sort of right, because first agriculture, then industrialisation, and now robotisation reduce the amount of activity necessary in order to subsist, and they’ve all happened faster than we could possibly evolve to accommodate the changes, so we have to invent “unnecessary” activity to compensate. And, without the right psychological framework, or alternative rewards, that feels a bit like self-punishing hard labour for many people, especially if their fitness has already dropped below par (like mine has this past winter!).

In short, I remain convinced that the key to getting people to be active enough for their own good throughout life is in the psychology of it all.
Psamathe
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Psamathe »

DaveBeck wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 9:56am ... It was only, as Chris Packham once said,

"Then some idiot invented agriculture, then it all started to go wrong!"
...
Do you have a source for that quote, really to put it into context? On its own it is open to changes of meaning depending on context. eg, as quoted it could also be very relevant to human impacts on wildlife and environment.

(Tried Google but it didn't come up with much useful)

Ian
DaveBeck
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by DaveBeck »

Psamathe wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:15pm
Maybe it's more complex? Nature of muscle physiology means keeping fit can also be useful eg when running away from a hungry lion a fit individual has a distinct advantage over a lazy unfit person. Similarly, when chasing that prey animal again, fit muscles give the healthier person a distinct advantage.

But also we are increasingly being told (from credible sources) that staying active and fit helps avoid many major medical issues that can affect people of breeding age (and thus a more direct impact on natural selection).

Ian
I'm sure it is (and sorry to Nearholmer for repeating his ideas. I Obviously haven't read right from the start) It's at least a combination of both I expect. The need to get your food or run away, balanced out the not moving part. Unfortunately, the sedentary side of the curve seems to be winning out at the moment
DaveBeck
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by DaveBeck »

Psamathe wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:54pm
DaveBeck wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 9:56am ... It was only, as Chris Packham once said,

"Then some idiot invented agriculture, then it all started to go wrong!"
...
Do you have a source for that quote, really to put it into context? On its own it is open to changes of meaning depending on context. eg, as quoted it could also be very relevant to human impacts on wildlife and environment.

(Tried Google but it didn't come up with much useful)

Ian
Unfortunately no. It was to do with climate change. I only remembering him saying this in a program years ago. It's stuck in my mind, because a very tiny part of me wished, that they hadn't invented agriculture, because then the planet wouldn't be in the mess it's in today. But then I probably wouldn't be around to know!
Psamathe
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Psamathe »

With the health aspects of exercise one wonders if an increasingly stretched NHS might start to focus more on exercise as a treatment.

It gets very complex involving health policy, balancing budgets, treatment availability, moral case, NHS charter, etc. most way beyond my knowledge.

But behaviour aspects do (or at least did) affect the treatments you could be offered under the NHS. As I understand it, if you drink excessively then you wont be considered for a liver transplant until you get your drinking under control.

Mental Health help from exercise? (endorphins?). Not a cure but maybe some alleviation for some conditions?

I seem to remember something about GPs being able to prescribe a limited duration course of gym. My local council operates several quite good leisure centres incl. gyms, things like badminton, squash, etc. some with swimming pools. Did that scheme get anywhere? still running?

Ian
Jdsk
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 2:38pm With the health aspects of exercise one wonders if an increasingly stretched NHS might start to focus more on exercise as a treatment.

It gets very complex involving health policy, balancing budgets, treatment availability, moral case, NHS charter, etc. most way beyond my knowledge.

But behaviour aspects do (or at least did) affect the treatments you could be offered under the NHS. As I understand it, if you drink excessively then you wont be considered for a liver transplant until you get your drinking under control.

Mental Health help from exercise? (endorphins?). Not a cure but maybe some alleviation for some conditions?

I seem to remember something about GPs being able to prescribe a limited duration course of gym. My local council operates several quite good leisure centres incl. gyms, things like badminton, squash, etc. some with swimming pools. Did that scheme get anywhere? still running?
At the level of what individual practitioners can do for individual patients it's currently called "social prescribing". The evidence about what works and what doesn't is appearing, and there's some discussion in the archives.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalised ... escribing/

But a lot of what is needed isn't currently within the remit of the NHS. It includes explicit assessments of effects on health of other areas of policy: transport, food, education, employment... just about everything.

Jonathan
Nearholmer
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Nearholmer »

and sorry to Nearholmer for repeating his ideas. I Obviously haven't read right from the start)
No need to apologise. It was a line of thought that didn’t chime much with contributors at the time.
cooper_coleraine
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by cooper_coleraine »

Whilst excusing people with medical conditions the answer is simple sloth and greed.j
Jdsk
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jdsk »

The annual report from the Active Lives Adult Survey:
https://www.sportengland.org/news-and-i ... ded-tackle
"Long-term increase in activity levels positive but further action needed to tackle inequalities"

Jonathan
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TrevA
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by TrevA »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 2:44pm
Psamathe wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 2:38pm With the health aspects of exercise one wonders if an increasingly stretched NHS might start to focus more on exercise as a treatment.

It gets very complex involving health policy, balancing budgets, treatment availability, moral case, NHS charter, etc. most way beyond my knowledge.

But behaviour aspects do (or at least did) affect the treatments you could be offered under the NHS. As I understand it, if you drink excessively then you wont be considered for a liver transplant until you get your drinking under control.

Mental Health help from exercise? (endorphins?). Not a cure but maybe some alleviation for some conditions?

I seem to remember something about GPs being able to prescribe a limited duration course of gym. My local council operates several quite good leisure centres incl. gyms, things like badminton, squash, etc. some with swimming pools. Did that scheme get anywhere? still running?
At the level of what individual practitioners can do for individual patients it's currently called "social prescribing". The evidence about what works and what doesn't is appearing, and there's some discussion in the archives.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalised ... escribing/

But a lot of what is needed isn't currently within the remit of the NHS. It includes explicit assessments of effects on health of other areas of policy: transport, food, education, employment... just about everything.

Jonathan
I have some experience of social prescribing. At my annual Type 2 Diabetes check, I complained that they were asking me to lose a bit of weight, but not giving me any support in doing so. So I was referred to a social prescriber who sorted out 2 things for me. They put me in contact with a local Diabetes Support Group, which was great but they meet on a Wednesday, which is the same day as my cycling club’s midweek ride, so I hardly go to the support group.

The other thing they did was refer me to a Weight Loss Support Programme called Your Health, Your Way. This is a 12 week programme where you get weighed each week, then you do half an hour of what is essentially circuit training, then have a half hour talk on some aspect of health. This included food labelling, macros, the traffic light system on food labels, safe levels of drinking alcohol, the importance of 5 a day, but not really any specific advice on diet and losing weight. It didn’t really work for me. Over the 12 weeks, I lost about 3kg. I enjoyed the circuit training, but it aggravated my dodgy hip and an old Achilles injury I have. So overall, it didn’t work for me.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
djnotts
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by djnotts »

Never fear, Big Pharma is ready to save us. And the profits will be huge.

""New weight loss jab gold rush" is the headline on Wednesday's i newspaper as it leads with a new study which reports obesity injections could cut the risk of heart attacks and strokes in people even if they fail to lose much weight."

Presumably, with a <20 BMI I won't be eligible for the heart attack and stroke protection attributes. McDs for breakfast and KFC for lunch here I come.....
toontra
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by toontra »

djnotts wrote: 15 May 2024, 7:55am Never fear, Big Pharma is ready to save us. And the profits will be huge.
Well indeed. How have we reached the point where it takes mass medical intervention to deal with a largely social problem?
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Audax67
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Audax67 »

djnotts wrote: 15 May 2024, 7:55am ""New weight loss jab gold rush" is the headline on Wednesday's i newspaper as it leads with a new study which reports obesity injections could cut the risk of heart attacks and strokes in people even if they fail to lose much weight."
OK'd by the NHS, too, yet in other countries Semaglutide is prescribed primarily for treating Type 2 diabetes - ISTR that the US NIH says that it is not a weight-loss drug.

Given the greedy gleam in the avaricious eyes of BFO Pharma, that's about to change. The price will skyrocket, too.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
gbnz
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by gbnz »

djnotts wrote: 15 May 2024, 7:55am Never fear, Big Pharma is ready to save us. And the profits will be huge.

""New weight loss jab gold rush" is the headline on Wednesday's i newspaper as it leads with a new study which reports obesity injections could cut the risk of heart attacks and strokes in people even if they fail to lose much weight."

Presumably, with a <20 BMI I won't be eligible for the heart attack and stroke protection attributes. McDs for breakfast and KFC for lunch here I come.....
Are you suggesting that lifestyle could affect one's weight and level of fitness ? In my immediate family, supposedly due to a genetic issue, I have 1 sibling morbidly obese & 2 siblings obese, whilst I've always been lucky with my genetics, being exceptionally fit/slim (Nb. Only have a BSc, haven't even a MSc, MA, Phd or whatever, so have to listen to my more highly educated family members)

I'm not affected, because of my genetics. I've always suspected that aside from diet, having 42 yr's seriously cycling, 22yr's @ typical 150 miles a week, c/w 32 yr's using a gym, perhaps around 3-4 times a week, could be making a difference. It's a bit like financia...... :wink:
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