Tent needed for York Rally

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Philip Benstead
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Philip Benstead »

Cowsham wrote: 14 May 2024, 11:22pm
Philip Benstead wrote: 14 May 2024, 7:04pm I brought this


Forceatt Tent, 1/2 Person Two Doors Camping Tent, Ultralight Waterproof 1-2 Man Tent,Quick To Set Up,Portable,for Camping,Motorcycle Travel, Backpacking


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forceatt-Light ... D_BwE&th=1
Good luck Philip
Are you suggesting I have chosen unwisely?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
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Cowsham
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Cowsham »

Philip Benstead wrote: 14 May 2024, 11:37pm
Cowsham wrote: 14 May 2024, 11:22pm
Philip Benstead wrote: 14 May 2024, 7:04pm I brought this


Forceatt Tent, 1/2 Person Two Doors Camping Tent, Ultralight Waterproof 1-2 Man Tent,Quick To Set Up,Portable,for Camping,Motorcycle Travel, Backpacking


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forceatt-Light ... D_BwE&th=1
Good luck Philip
Are you suggesting I have chosen unwisely?
Depends on how long you'll be using it and the weather -- the PU 2000mm is a little concerning.
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pjclinch
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by pjclinch »

Cowsham wrote: 14 May 2024, 12:22am You'll want at least 3000mm hydro head fly sheet.
Why?
1000 is legally waterproof (though the MoD will accept 800 IIRC) , and while it might not stay that way for as many camping nights as something higher, if it's rarely used that's a bit of a moot point.

Successful camping is typically far more about management than stuff. Tents tend to get wet inside because of a lack of care getting in and out in wet clothes than flysheets leaking, for example. A four season tent will still blow away if you don't peg it out properly, and so on.

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Cowsham
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Cowsham »

pjclinch wrote: 15 May 2024, 8:10am
Cowsham wrote: 14 May 2024, 12:22am You'll want at least 3000mm hydro head fly sheet.
Why?
1000 is legally waterproof (though the MoD will accept 800 IIRC) , and while it might not stay that way for as many camping nights as something higher, if it's rarely used that's a bit of a moot point.

Successful camping is typically far more about management than stuff. Tents tend to get wet inside because of a lack of care getting in and out in wet clothes than flysheets leaking, for example. A four season tent will still blow away if you don't peg it out properly, and so on.

Pete.
While I agree with most of that we can get continual very heavy rain ( and wind ) for weeks at a time night and day. When moving from my old canvas tents I did a lot of homework and 3000mm was advised for our NI weather as a minimum. From my experience 3000mm will do that job well for two weeks so I stick with that.

One of the most important things though is the gap between outer and inner. When I bought my regatta Kivu 3 man 3000mm dome tent the inner stuck to the outer when the weight of the water on the fly pushed in on the inner.

The problem was way that it was pitched with the fibre glass rods under the fly instead of in a sleeve on the outside of the fly like most budget tents.

You'd think this would be ideal but it's not. They didn't leave a long enough web between the rod and inner so when the fly is thrown over the top ( and fastened to various points with ties to the rods ) it wasn't far enough away from the inner. If you pulled the fly murderously tight it would do a little better but it was never perfect.
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pjclinch
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by pjclinch »

Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm
pjclinch wrote: 15 May 2024, 8:10am
Cowsham wrote: 14 May 2024, 12:22am You'll want at least 3000mm hydro head fly sheet.
Why?
1000 is legally waterproof (though the MoD will accept 800 IIRC) , and while it might not stay that way for as many camping nights as something higher, if it's rarely used that's a bit of a moot point.

Successful camping is typically far more about management than stuff. Tents tend to get wet inside because of a lack of care getting in and out in wet clothes than flysheets leaking, for example. A four season tent will still blow away if you don't peg it out properly, and so on.
While I agree with most of that we can get continual very heavy rain ( and wind ) for weeks at a time night and day.
Philip's job, as I understand it, is spending a weekend at the York Rally.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm When moving from my old canvas tents I did a lot of homework and 3000mm was advised for our NI weather as a minimum. From my experience 3000mm will do that job well for two weeks so I stick with that.
As noted above, the legal definition of "waterproof" is a 1m hydrostatic head. What you tend to lose with very low figures is endurance, and I don't mean 2 weeks of rainy weather, I mean several years of UV degradation, ageing induced coating breakdown and similar. That's not going to happen during a weekend at the York Rally, and probably not before the next York Rally and the one after that if it's stored in a dark, cool place.
What would almost certainly get the inside wet before two weeks of continual rain is up isn't the fly leaking but the lack of dry change space at the doors, making it very difficult to come in without bringing some of the rain with you, and that would be the case if the fly had a 10m HH.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pmOne of the most important things though is the gap between outer and inner. When I bought my regatta Kivu 3 man 3000mm dome tent the inner stuck to the outer when the weight of the water on the fly pushed in on the inner.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. If the fly is waterproof then all that getting pushed on to the outer will pick up is condensation on the inside of the fly. That's enough to make it damp, but not actually wet to the point of making puddles and has no effect on whether it leaks or not.
Separation is, on the whole, a Good Thing but not having much isn't a deal breaker in a lightweight synthetic tent, as anyone who'd used Spacepackers successfully can attest. With cotton canvas it will actually leak if you push the inner against the outer because it's surface tension keeping the water out, but with an impermeable waterproof coat that really isn't an issue.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm The problem was way that it w
as pitched with the fibre glass rods under the fly instead of in a sleeve on the outside of the fly like most budget tents.
There's far more than budget dictating whether a fly is throw-over or sleeve supported. The Terra Nova Quasar is an expensive, well regarded 4 season geodesic bunker class tent with a simple throw-over fly sheet, for example. The Hilleberg Tarra is an expensive, well regarded 4 season geodesic bunker class tent with external pole sleeves. Both do the same job with a similar layout but some very different design ideas, and both do it well.

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Cowsham
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Cowsham »

pjclinch wrote: 15 May 2024, 1:23pm
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm
pjclinch wrote: 15 May 2024, 8:10am

Why?
1000 is legally waterproof (though the MoD will accept 800 IIRC) , and while it might not stay that way for as many camping nights as something higher, if it's rarely used that's a bit of a moot point.

Successful camping is typically far more about management than stuff. Tents tend to get wet inside because of a lack of care getting in and out in wet clothes than flysheets leaking, for example. A four season tent will still blow away if you don't peg it out properly, and so on.
While I agree with most of that we can get continual very heavy rain ( and wind ) for weeks at a time night and day.
Philip's job, as I understand it, is spending a weekend at the York Rally.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm When moving from my old canvas tents I did a lot of homework and 3000mm was advised for our NI weather as a minimum. From my experience 3000mm will do that job well for two weeks so I stick with that.
As noted above, the legal definition of "waterproof" is a 1m hydrostatic head. What you tend to lose with very low figures is endurance, and I don't mean 2 weeks of rainy weather, I mean several years of UV degradation, ageing induced coating breakdown and similar. That's not going to happen during a weekend at the York Rally, and probably not before the next York Rally and the one after that if it's stored in a dark, cool place.
What would almost certainly get the inside wet before two weeks of continual rain is up isn't the fly leaking but the lack of dry change space at the doors, making it very difficult to come in without bringing some of the rain with you, and that would be the case if the fly had a 10m HH.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pmOne of the most important things though is the gap between outer and inner. When I bought my regatta Kivu 3 man 3000mm dome tent the inner stuck to the outer when the weight of the water on the fly pushed in on the inner.
Up to a point, Lord Copper. If the fly is waterproof then all that getting pushed on to the outer will pick up is condensation on the inside of the fly. That's enough to make it damp, but not actually wet to the point of making puddles and has no effect on whether it leaks or not.
Separation is, on the whole, a Good Thing but not having much isn't a deal breaker in a lightweight synthetic tent, as anyone who'd used Spacepackers successfully can attest. With cotton canvas it will actually leak if you push the inner against the outer because it's surface tension keeping the water out, but with an impermeable waterproof coat that really isn't an issue.
Cowsham wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:23pm The problem was way that it w
as pitched with the fibre glass rods under the fly instead of in a sleeve on the outside of the fly like most budget tents.
There's far more than budget dictating whether a fly is throw-over or sleeve supported. The Terra Nova Quasar is an expensive, well regarded 4 season geodesic bunker class tent with a simple throw-over fly sheet, for example. The Hilleberg Tarra is an expensive, well regarded 4 season geodesic bunker class tent with external pole sleeves. Both do the same job with a similar layout but some very different design ideas, and both do it well.

Pete.
I agree and the wee regatta tent didn't actually leak to the inside but I thought at nearly £100 ( on offer at the time ) I could've done better. The lidl tent at £39 the next year was light years better in every way.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Philip Benstead »

Where is that can of worm's
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Cowsham
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Cowsham »

Philip Benstead wrote: 15 May 2024, 2:42pm Where is that can of worm's

Right under your post. :lol:
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Bmblbzzz »

It would probably be unwise to take a really good tent to what is effectively a short festival with adequate toilets and showers but inadequate drugs and no fencing.
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by fastpedaller »

I was about to give away my 2-man tent until I saw the OP has now bought one - Though it wouldn't have been worth a journey to Norfolk to collect it. If anyone wants it (subject to me checking it's ok after twelve years loft storage) and they are nearby they are welcome.
I gave up camping when I built the caravan
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Cowsham
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Cowsham »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 May 2024, 4:14pm It would probably be unwise to take a really good tent to what is effectively a short festival with adequate toilets and showers but inadequate drugs and no fencing.
That's OK then in a tent while a sword fight going on -- not the place to be anyway imo. Plus a waste of a good tent.
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Bmblbzzz »

The reason it's on a horse racing track is for the jousting, yeah?
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Tent needed for York Rally

Post by Philip Benstead »

To put things in perceptive regarding my choice of tent, see the photograph of my tent that has bitten the dust. The tent was obtained in 1979 for £20.

I have used it in Wales at Easter, and Greece in August, it has been subject to rain, the cold and the sun, but it did me well.
20240511_120932.jpg
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclists' in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic
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