Velomobile HPV first ride

[pwa]

Well, quite.
I had a conversation sat on my 'bent in a car park with a driver in the next space. It went something like this...

"It must be dangerous down there"
"Down where?"
"You're so low!"
"I'm at the same height as you" (I was, a Streetmachine isn't particularly low, seat at about car seat height)
"But... You're so low!"

You can't confuse people with facts when they've made their minds up!

Pete.

I have driven plenty of tallish vehicles where, if you were to my left at traffic lights, I might not be able to see you from my driver's seat if you were on a particularly low recumbent. Hopefully I would have been looking in my left mirror as you approached, and not watching other traffic things going on. Can't say I've heard of many mishaps with bents though.

When I ride (upright and bent) I do take care not to surreptitiously slip into a blind spot of other vehicles (common sense). If eg approaching a queue waiting at lights I assume those drivers are not spending all their time scanning behind them using their mirrors (I will often just join the back of the queue middle of lane). But if I'm stopped waiting at lights, cars approaching from behind should see me and if they pull alongside me will know I'm there.

Yet again I seem to have kicked of a "off-topic" deviation from the subject of the yhread (at least in a way). Interesting discussion though. Time to het moderator to split this to a new thread? (I've not reported/asked).

Ian

Just a pleasant bit of thread drift, until someone comes along with more to-the-point observations.......

[Ayseven]

I think those things look like a lot of fun! Of course in North America where cars and trucks rule the world you'd not last long. Too bad. Love to get one.

[Jdsk]

...
I have driven plenty of tallish vehicles where, if you were to my left at traffic lights, I might not be able to see you from my driver's seat if you were on a particularly low recumbent. Hopefully I would have been looking in my left mirror as you approached, and not watching other traffic things going on. Can't say I've heard of many mishaps with bents though.

And, as always, experience of many different types of road use as possible is enormously helpful.

Ad the human mind is extremely powerful at generating hypotheses and predictions about the outside world.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

There's a recurrent trope in this forum describing concerns about the visibility of other road users being met with "Well you saw me, didn't you?". But it isn't necessarily a great argument. A might express concerns to B about B's visibility in a setting other than that in which the comment is made: "I can see you now but I mightn't if... ".

This uses that amazing power of the human mind to predict things that haven't happened yet. And fits nicely with the Swiss cheese model of adverse events

Jonathan

[cycle tramp]

(As a bent rider) I have had people say "you're too low to be seen" (even had a massive argument with a French guy in a French campsite and managed to get in virtually all my French insults and swear words at him (he was a fool) ended up telling him not to drive again until he's been to the optician.

But there are other situations which might carry more risk. On the very low trike I'm particularly concerned about someone turning into me in traffic by mistaking me for a gap.

Jonathan

PS: As is traditional at this point in the discussion I'll mention the number of other road users' heads that turn to look at any recumbent.

Damn... I'm agreeing with Jdsk... if only based on my father's comments from ages ago when he drove a 2cv based kit car for a couple of years.... it was really quite a low thing, but sometimes at junctions (especially during summer when the grass had grown).. he used to find people pulling out on him and suddenly stopping when they made eye contact... without a clear sight to the road surface people would automatically assume that when they saw a space in the traffic, they then failed to check for a lower vehicle (whether it was a recumbent bicycle kit carr, road legal kneeling sidecar outfit, or low rider motorcycle).

[pjclinch]

There's a recurrent trope in this forum describing concerns about the visibility of other road users being met with "Well you saw me, didn't you?". But it isn't necessarily a great argument. A might express concerns to B about B's visibility in a setting other than that in which the comment is made: "I can see you now but I mightn't if... ".

This uses that amazing power of the human mind to predict things that haven't happened yet. And fits nicely with the Swiss cheese model of adverse events

This is a fair comment in some contexts, but I think it's worth noting that there are at least some people that tend to decide things as safe/good dangerous/bad according to somewhat binary cultural tropes. If they've e.g. bought in to the idea of needing dayglo jackets to be seen then it "follows" that people in black jackets can't be seen, and that becomes their stated position irrespective of what information their eyes have to offer.

Pete.

[Stradageek]

Never had a problem being seen on my recumbents: have had multiple problems being ignored when on an upright. It's much safer on a bent

Many nice comments whilst out riding today of the thumbs-up and 'nice bike' variety, however one guy did say "don't fall asleep on that". I laughed and rode on, it would take some time to explain about the time I did fall asleep

[CyberKnight]

always fancied a recumbant trike/ velomobile , asaid form cost my commute route has a section you can barely get through on a "standard " 2 wheeled upright as its basically an overgrown shared use path with sections that are barely wider than drop bars .

[Psamathe]

...
Many nice comments whilst out riding today of the thumbs-up and 'nice bike' variety, however one guy did say "don't fall asleep on that". I laughed and rode on, it would take some time to explain about the time I did fall asleep :lol:

Surprised me last year touring in France where on multiple occasions I had thumbs-up signs out of car windows, sometimes with cheers. On one occasion cycling a canal side towpath and a tourist boat passed and they all started clapping me.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Never had a problem being seen on my recumbents: have had multiple problems being ignored when on an upright. It's much safer on a bent :D
...

My gut feel is that I am noticed far more or given far more consideration on the recumbent trike. On upright I don't suffer from close passes - I have them but they are rare and not a major issue beyond a few mins after the event. But on two wheel upright cars approaching from behind will readily pass on totally inappropriate places with dangerous lack of visibility vs on the recumbent I pull in closer to kerb, left front wheel bouncing around in potholes and debris and, despite loads of visibility and loads of space car behind still wont pass and hangs back (a mild frustration but better excessive caution than lack of caution).

Ian

[pwa]

There's a recurrent trope in this forum describing concerns about the visibility of other road users being met with "Well you saw me, didn't you?". But it isn't necessarily a great argument. A might express concerns to B about B's visibility in a setting other than that in which the comment is made: "I can see you now but I mightn't if... ".

This uses that amazing power of the human mind to predict things that haven't happened yet. And fits nicely with the Swiss cheese model of adverse events

Jonathan

Anticipating potential problems is exactly what we are trained to do when we undertake Health and Safety at Work courses. You don't just address incidents you have seen happen. You look around and try to anticipate all the plausible mishaps, then do something to mitigate the risks. When you have been on a few courses it becomes a habit. Perhaps too much of a habit.

[UpWrong]

At one time I was really keen on getting a velomobile. I travelled to Copenhagen to try a Leitra.

For these low sporty ones like the Milan, I would suggest a blinking front light to aid visibility. I normally hate lights and flags on recumbents but drivers can't see any pedalling action going on with velomobiles, so they don't get a movement trigger to notice what's coming along the road when looking to emerge from side roads etc.