deejayen wrote: 14 May 2024, 8:25pm
I've always been something of a weight weenie, and have bivvied in the past...
I'm thinking about buying a new tent and sleeping pad, and have gone from wanting lightweight camping gear to wondering if a slightly heavier / roomier tent and comfier sleep mat are worth considering. For axample, a tent which is somewhere between 2kg and 3kg rather than one which is between 1kg or 1.5kg, and a sleeping mat which is around 1.3kg rather than one which is 500g or less....
Why go from one extreme to the other? There are options which are both comfortable *and* lightweight. For example, why would you choose the Sea To Summit Comfort Plus XT over the much lighter (and less expensive) Ether Light XT?
I got a Sea to Summit Ultralight Self-Inflating sleeping mat. Dreadful thing. Only purchased it as it was the only thing nearest Decathlon (in France) had when my existing sleeping mat failed mid tour. Wont be using it again (now have replacement from manufacturer of the failed mat). The Sea to Summit was expensive, heavy (despite being called "ultralight") not very thick, not very comfortable and bulky and didn't self-inflate. But you can only buy what the shop has in-stock.
For me, it's not just about weight and bulk, but the function of the (bulky, weighty) object. Sleep is important, a good night's rest means a more enjoyable day, and therefore weight and bulk (and expense) are justifiable for sleeping bags and mats. But in fact sleeping comfort, for me, doesn't mean a big, squidgy mattress; I'm more comfortable on something narrower but wider. So I have a Thermarest something or other that weighs about 800g and rolls up quite small. I could get lighter and smaller but the gain would be small and the expense large.
OTOH there's no point duplicating clothes which won't be worn, for instance, or taking smart clothes if I'm just going to be riding and hanging round in at least semi-wild locations.
It's also worth thinking whether items will be for used for non-cycle camping. If you might go backpacking too, weight and bulk become far more burdensome, so the repayment on money spent to save weight is greater.
My experience is that however much or little I bring I spend the first day or two cursing my choices. I either feel like I forgot something I really should have brought, or taken something I'd never need. In the latter case every hill seems especially tough and I imagine myself climbing at the speed of a Tour de France rider, if only I'd left the kitchen sink at home.
By day three I'm in my groove and have mostly forgotten about the extra weight, other than when I have to carry my bike onto a train or up some steps.
I read an article by a cycle tourist (maybe posted on here before, but I don't recall the URL) who found that a few extra KGs barely made any impact to the amount of time it took to cycle a a normal tour day's distance.
I've not camped since I was in the scouts, but my all-up weight fully laden for hostelling was 106kg, out of which 69kg was me. I don't recall being particularly aware of the difference between all bottles and food packets full or empty, and that difference would have been nearly 8kg if everything became empty at the same time. It didn't take very many tours before I had a well-honed, detailed luggage list that never changed.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
slowster wrote: 15 May 2024, 12:38pm
Why go from one extreme to the other? There are options which are both comfortable *and* lightweight. For example, why would you choose the Sea To Summit Comfort Plus XT over the much lighter (and less expensive) Ether Light XT?
The Comfort Plus XT is just one I've been considering if I decide to completely ignore weight and bulk and go for comfort. I've never seen one, but I've heard that some people find it more comfortable than the likes of the Ether Light XT, mainly because it's a dual layer, and the bottom layer can be firm for support, while the upper layer can be softer for comfort. Apparently that's good for side sleepers like me, and it can also make the mattress more supportive\stable. There's also some inbuilt redundancy if one of the layers springs a leak!
bohrsatom wrote: 15 May 2024, 1:37pm
I read an article by a cycle tourist (maybe posted on here before, but I don't recall the URL) who found that a few extra KGs barely made any impact to the amount of time it took to cycle a a normal tour day's distance.
It's going to depend on the tour and the rider, of course, but in any case I'd suggest that, on a tour, the time taken is not the point. It's that it's more fun to ride a less laden bike, not least because it usually handles better, and it's more comfortable camping in a non-minimal way. From this you balance your own tour. And of course it's perfectly possible, even normal, to have both forgotten something essential and taken a whole load you'll never use.
Pendodave wrote: 14 May 2024, 9:50pm
Panniers 1.9kg ortlieb Could replace with altura vortex 1kg saving 0.9kg for £70
I bought a pair of the those Altura, in a sale, and really dislike them. The rack fitting is awkward, then they flop about... I replaced the top fittings with some Ortlieb ones and dislike them slightly less. If you're interested, make me an offer!
If you have to have the lightest, then there isn't much choice and all of them probably involve compromise. But there is a fair bit of middle ground between your examples - The Ortlieb Grave panniers for example are 1.16kg.
Pendodave wrote: 14 May 2024, 9:50pm
Panniers 1.9kg ortlieb Could replace with altura vortex 1kg saving 0.9kg for £70
I bought a pair of the those Altura, in a sale, and really dislike them. The rack fitting is awkward, then they flop about... I replaced the top fittings with some Ortlieb ones and dislike them slightly less. If you're interested, make me an offer!
If you have to have the lightest, then there isn't much choice and all of them probably involve compromise. But there is a fair bit of middle ground between your examples - The Ortlieb Grave panniers for example are 1.16kg.
I've just weighed one of our Ortlieb Classic roll-top panniers: 856 g.
Lots of talk about mats, but IMO the bedding needs to be treated as a system. A heavier well insulated mat can save weight if it allows a lighter bag, the extension of that is doing away with the bag and using a quilt. .
I've toured with too much kit and not enough. My conclusion is that depriving yourself of something you'd like to have with you will have a worse effect on your tour than carrying an extra 5kg. The only time I think the weight becomes important is if it compromises the choice of bike.
PH wrote: 15 May 2024, 7:23pm
Lots of talk about mats, but IMO the bedding needs to be treated as a system. A heavier well insulated mat can save weight if it allows a lighter bag, the extension of that is doing away with the bag and using a quilt. .
Yes... though given down under a sleeper gives roughly no insulation those of us in down bags using something like a Neoair can attest that outside of winter there's not really any great need of a heavier mat unless you're a cold sleeper, so you can have a light mat and a light bag by throwing money at it.
The reason I've not gone down the experimenting with quilts route is my bags aren't broken and aren't that heavy/bulky rather than I have anything in particular against the concept, though I note noted outdoor gear guru Chris Townsend prefers bags as they're easier to wear as warm garments while e.g. cooking tea/breakfast.
I’ve broadly taken the throw money approach at it in the past and whilst you could say I’m a sucker for fancy equipment it does at least free up space for a luxury that you really want. For example take a lightweight tent (I have a big Agnes copper spur) and a helinox chair for a bit of comfort. Personally I’m not sure I’ll ever take cooking stuff again- I’m happy with a picnic set up these days but it’s possible so that’s more space saved. NB I do have a down cover thing and it’s both warm and has saved a lot of space. You do need to consider whether you are too wriggly for one though. In no way have I got value for money out of mine on the basis of number of nights used over the big price tag.
Ortlieb panniers just generally annoy me. How did they decide that the standard back pannier set should be 10 litres smaller than any other Brand?
Oh wow! I never, ever camp stoveless. I often take a lightweight stove (ethanol or eg BRS 3000 and small gas cannister) even on a day ride or walk. It's just so good, IMO, to have a hot drink when the weather's dreary. Or even when it's not.
Several strands in this topic seem familiar to me. First, when I went to northern France, I quickly learnt that cooking paraphernalia was redundant. However folks with more recent experience say this strategy has become less reliable of late. Second, without cooking gear I used to shoot for roughly 10-15lbs of stuff, give or take. At that weight gears - assuming there’s more than one - seem to vanish without trace. I can't imagine managing with only one. Third, on my own TSR, broadly speaking, I would use Ortlieb front rollers up front and the tent, bag and mat at back.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 May 2024, 8:58pm
Oh wow! I never, ever camp stoveless. I often take a lightweight stove (ethanol or eg BRS 3000 and small gas cannister) even on a day ride or walk. It's just so good, IMO, to have a hot drink when the weather's dreary. Or even when it's not.
Steel vacuum flask are pretty cheap these days, not too heavy and if it's a dreich day are far less fuss than brewing up.
