BEVs

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

I appreciate the BEV mostly because they...

cost less to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car
9
12%
are reducing the harm done to our planet and its lifeforms
11
15%
are quiet and smooth
7
9%
can be refuelled with my own renewable energy production
10
13%
can supply energy to the home and Grid
4
5%
No! I am concerned they are just another way of making the car seem acceptable
34
45%
 
Total votes: 75

Biospace
Posts: 2225
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Carlton green wrote: 17 May 2024, 10:57am Nice to see Cugel back; we don’t always agree but a forum where everyone agreed wouldn’t be as useful and one can be on friendly terms with others without always agreeing with them :) .
...
Of course, by public transport, I don’t unreservedly mean to include aeroplanes. I’d have most of them out of the sky tomorrow ‘cause imho they’re polluters with but limited social value, grump. Ban new fossil fuel aircraft from 2035.
+1, to both those points.
Biospace
Posts: 2225
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

Nearholmer wrote: 18 May 2024, 12:28pm
My bold

That’s the thing though, isn’t it.
This is in danger of descending into “Oh, no it isn’t! Oh, yes it is!”, but I stand by my words in respect of ICV.

The fact that the alternatives on offer also pose a threat doesn’t alter the fact that ICVs are a threat, and a large one.

The main proximate threat is CO2 emissions driving climate change, and of CO2 emissions, c20% come from transport, and of that c20% about 45%, so about 9% of the total (it’s often cited as “a tenth”), comes from cars and motorcycles.
IMG_0603.jpeg
Yes, the way EV is being deployed is deeply flawed, and we don’t have a grip on what damage to the environment battery technology might do in the long run, doesn’t “let ICVs off the hook”; they need to be chased out of existence.

Personally, I’d probably go for more compulsion and restriction in the cause of sustainability, not less, but I do have a barely-hidden authoritarian streak when it comes to matters of survival.
Is it not mostly in the short to medium term, perhaps within the next 40 years, that batteries represent the most environmental damage, the more so as other vehicles are banned from sale? 70 years from now it's very likely mining, refining and manufacturing processes will be significantly decarbonised and the process of recycling should have been better developed.

Your graphic has a fact which many do not see, it's so small - rail accounts for 1% of the ACC. Yet all the talk is of how to get as many toxic batteries onto the roads, including for freight.

Belief in catastrophic climate change for many is devout, yet there is great reluctance to consider the railways. Where is the logic?

It's worth noting that the figures given by Our World in Data are percentages of the anthropogenic carbon cycle - if we consider the total carbon cycle of the planet, 9% becomes less than 0.5%.

This is why I'm so keen to talk about how land is (mis)used - the effects are far greater than most realise.
Carlton green
Posts: 3892
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Carlton green »

UpWrong wrote: 18 May 2024, 11:56am Amongst all this negativity about BEVs, there are signs that car companies are now trying to meet the demand of practical family cars rather than just catering to the profitable luxury SUV and fleet markets. This year sees the introduction of the Citreon eC3, the Renault 5 E-tech and the new Dacia Spring which will all be sub £25K. CarWow is saying you can get a new Leaf for £24K. So that is progress compared to a year ago with nothing under £30K. The charging infrastructure continues to grow. If you have a driveway and the time has come to change your car then BEVs are a viable option now for many.

I would like to see the L6e/L7e Quadricycle market go mainstream. It was disappointing that Renault and Seat abandoned it, but the Ami is a success and if the Silence or Microlino is half successful then it might persuade the bigger players to get involved.
My bold.

Nissan either has or is about to stop production of the Leaf at its Sunderland Manufacturing Plant and the model will disappear from the Nissan UK range this year - some discounts might be available. Manufacture of a replacement electric vehicle at the Sunderland Plant is apparently a couple of years away.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
UpWrong
Posts: 2509
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

A very passionate attack on perceived disinformation by the BBC and others from Robert of the Fully Charged show, https://fullycharged.show/episodes/bbcs ... -hand-evs/
Carlton green
Posts: 3892
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Carlton green »

UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 7:14am A very passionate attack on perceived disinformation by the BBC and others from Robert of the Fully Charged show, https://fullycharged.show/episodes/bbcs ... -hand-evs/
Thanks for that. I listened to the video and whilst some of it was informative other stuff wasn’t really news and some might say that the presenter rants on a bit. Still, if someone is of similar mind (to the presenter) then no doubt they think Robert is wonderful; I’m not within his target audience and thought him a bit OTT.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
UpWrong
Posts: 2509
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
Jdsk
Posts: 26016
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 2:28pm Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
I can't find that. What's the source, please?

Jonathan
UpWrong
Posts: 2509
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

Jdsk wrote: 21 May 2024, 5:41pm
UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 2:28pm Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
I can't find that. What's the source, please?

Jonathan
Private letter to a Citroen Ami owner:
VED_letter.jpg
Jdsk
Posts: 26016
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks

I'm surprised by the straightforward answer.

That looks like a good decision: we need a managed migration and certainty about future charges helps enormously.

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 26016
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

"Pedestrian safety on the road to net zero: cross-sectional study of collisions with electric and hybrid-electric cars in Great Britain":
https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

Guardian coverage:
"Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/artic ... tudy-finds

Jonathan
reohn2
Posts: 45467
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 2:28pm Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
Will it though?
Will people drive more midget cars in a land of giants,because they save upto £270 per annum especially when those small BEVs carry a premium price tag?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4688
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: BEVs

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 22 May 2024, 9:00am Thanks

I'm surprised by the straightforward answer.

That looks like a good decision: we need a managed migration and certainty about future charges helps enormously.

Jonathan
I don't think anything to do with vehicle excise duty is "a certainty".

My car tax more than often goes up between my receiving the V11 reminder and my actually buying the tax!!!
UpWrong
Posts: 2509
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 May 2024, 10:11am
Jdsk wrote: 22 May 2024, 9:00am Thanks

I'm surprised by the straightforward answer.

That looks like a good decision: we need a managed migration and certainty about future charges helps enormously.

Jonathan
I don't think anything to do with vehicle excise duty is "a certainty".

My car tax more than often goes up between my receiving the V11 reminder and my actually buying the tax!!!
There's nothing stopping them changing their mind in future and lumping electric quadricycles in with electric motorcycles and trikes.
UpWrong
Posts: 2509
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

reohn2 wrote: 22 May 2024, 9:22am
UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 2:28pm Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
Will it though?
Will people drive more midget cars in a land of giants,because they save upto £270 per annum especially when those small BEVs carry a premium price tag?
I think that along with 20 mph speed limits and ULEZs it is plausible that the electric quadricycle market will grow considerably. It seems that leasing is the most common form of private "ownership" so it comes down to the monthly payments and how they compare with public transport costs and other alternatives.
reohn2
Posts: 45467
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

UpWrong wrote: 22 May 2024, 11:48am
reohn2 wrote: 22 May 2024, 9:22am
UpWrong wrote: 21 May 2024, 2:28pm Good news. HM Treasury have written that electric quadricycles will remain exempt from VED from April 2025. That should help the take up of Citreon Amis, Silence S04s and Microlinos.
Will it though?
Will people drive more midget cars in a land of giants,because they save upto £270 per annum especially when those small BEVs carry a premium price tag?
I think that along with 20 mph speed limits and ULEZs it is plausible that the electric quadricycle market will grow considerably. It seems that leasing is the most common form of private "ownership" so it comes down to the monthly payments and how they compare with public transport costs and other alternatives.
Some reasons the consumers may reject are,status,ride quality/creature comfort on poor UK roads and range,as I've posted before micro BEVs will suit some people but they'll be in a small minority and I don't think free VED will be enough of an incentive to change people's minds.
I for one,admittedly I'm in a small minority,would rather commute on a small 125/350cc or E scooter in cities and towns that can thread it's way through the stream of traffic jams found in our cities and larger towns,than be sat rooted to the spot in a car stealing my precious time.
As an aside I saw one of these:- https://www.carverelectric.co.uk/ coming the other way the other day and thought "that looks great" I then had the reality check,all the disadvanges of a car with none of the advanges of a scooter or motorcycle any micro car suffers the same problem.

The answer to travel in cities and towns isn't a car shaped object.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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