UK Politics

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reohn2
Posts: 45482
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Debs wrote: 10 Jun 2024, 11:56pm
francovendee wrote: 10 Jun 2024, 9:51pm It beats me how such a nasty racist bully like Farage gets any followers. They must be bonkers. His only success was pushing the Tories to hold the referendum.
We have a lot to thank him for!! :roll:
The reason Nigel Fascist gets so many followers is simply down to our news media allowing him a relatively huge amount of air-time considering he isn't an MP and never has been, and has merely token relevance as the nationalistic loud mouthed grifter that says things dumb people like to hear and replicate down the pub.
+1
Farage says all the things "down the pub man" wants to hear,the fact he wouldn't implement all those things even if he got his hands on the handles of power,which he won't,doesn't cross pub man's mind.
Farage is a grifter born from the same mould(sp?)as Trump, they're in it for the money and self agrandisment,commonly known in the vernacular by same said pub man as a sh*t heads, crafty ones without doubt but sh*t heads nevertheless.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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Cugel
Posts: 5616
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Cugel »

Debs wrote: 10 Jun 2024, 11:56pm
francovendee wrote: 10 Jun 2024, 9:51pm It beats me how such a nasty racist bully like Farage gets any followers. They must be bonkers. His only success was pushing the Tories to hold the referendum.
We have a lot to thank him for!! :roll:
The reason Nigel Fascist gets so many followers is simply down to our news media allowing him a relatively huge amount of air-time considering he isn't an MP and never has been, and has merely token relevance as the nationalistic loud mouthed grifter that says things dumb people like to hear and replicate down the pub.
Ah yes, the pub opinions of the kind that tend to begin with, "That Hitler had the right idea ....."

Just lately we have yet another Reform would-be uber-man revealed as espousing something similar, along the lines that 1939 Britain should have appeased the wee 'tached rascal by accepting his offer of "neutrality" towards Blighterland if we just turned a blind eye to his dishing out invasions elsewhere. After all, "That Hitler had the right idea .......".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... y-comments

Strangely, the Reformist PR machine has defended the uber-man whilst the uber-man has made an attempted apology! Perhaps this is our best hope - they're too confused to organise an effective thrust for power?

On the other hand, pub-yob and similar have never been averse to confusion. Quite the opposite, really. A confused state of mind, zinging with immense cognitive dissonance, is what they seem to enjoy most. The Daily Hate Mail and The Torygraft know this, as does the arch-confuser Rupert Murkditch, a guttersnipe.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4690
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by PDQ Mobile »

pwa wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 6:59am Farage is very good at putting an opinion across, clearly and without using excess words. But only in bite-sized pieces. Given more time and the presence of opposing voices he begins to look flat footed and slow. And he isn't charismatic. To anyone concerned more about the content than the presentation these may seem like superficial things, but they weaken him. They limit his appeal.

Regarding TV coverage of Reform / Farage, I think it is about right. They are polling about 15%, which means that the TV coverage should cover them a bit, but not as much as the two main parties. And that is what is happening. If anything, I think the Liberals (with the same level of support) are getting more air time. If we try to suppress coverage of parties we don't like we just create problems.
You will back him again then I guess.
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4690
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by PDQ Mobile »

The General Election announcement moved me to verse :shock:

General Election Announcement.

The micturating rain,
Seemed to leave a stain
Like a thousand pigeons passing over.
Just before they put him out to clover.
Or simply find a drain.
Carlton green
Posts: 3893
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Carlton green »

Ah yes, the pub opinions of the kind that tend to begin with, "That Hitler had the right idea ....."
credit Cudgel above.

‘Pub opinions’ tend to be simple and polarised rather than nuanced, suppose you could say the same of opinions in the press and in other social groups too.

From the little that I know of the way that the State of Israel conducts itself … inhuman is a mild description for some of the stuff that they do and one wonders why? To be honest I find the acceptance of Israeli behaviour beyond astonishing and certainly feel that duel standards are in place …
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
pwa
Posts: 17610
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pwa »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 9:13am
pwa wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 6:59am Farage is very good at putting an opinion across, clearly and without using excess words. But only in bite-sized pieces. Given more time and the presence of opposing voices he begins to look flat footed and slow. And he isn't charismatic. To anyone concerned more about the content than the presentation these may seem like superficial things, but they weaken him. They limit his appeal.

Regarding TV coverage of Reform / Farage, I think it is about right. They are polling about 15%, which means that the TV coverage should cover them a bit, but not as much as the two main parties. And that is what is happening. If anything, I think the Liberals (with the same level of support) are getting more air time. If we try to suppress coverage of parties we don't like we just create problems.
You will back him again then I guess.
So you took that critique of his presentational skills as praise? :lol:
I intend voting Labour.
Mike Sales
Posts: 8040
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Mike Sales »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 9:20am The General Election announcement moved me to verse :shock:

General Election Announcement.

The micturating rain,
Seemed to leave a stain
Like a thousand pigeons passing over.
Just before they put him out to clover.
Or simply find a drain.
And his lies are in vain.
Should've let the train take the strain,
Not the plane.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Psamathe
Posts: 18304
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

Institute for Fiscal Studies on the Conservative re-vamped Help to Buy and the experiences of their previous Help to Buy
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/11/tory-conservative-manifesto-rishi-sunak-uk-general-election-keir-starmer-labour-latest-live-updates[/url] @11:28 wrote:And not all of the subsidy ends up benefiting the buyer; in previous iterations of Help to Buy some of the subsidy instead benefited developers in the form of higher sale prices and profits.
And saw a bit of Sunak taking about how developers will be putting in 5% of the deposit ... but he couldn't appreciate the concept that a 1st time buyer might be buying a 2nd hand house, maybe from a private seller so what happens to the 5% then or is this a push for developer profits pushing buyers to buy new?

And why the perpetual need to buy. Why not also make renting more viable for tenants through better regulation?

Ian
pwa
Posts: 17610
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 12:00pm Institute for Fiscal Studies on the Conservative re-vamped Help to Buy and the experiences of their previous Help to Buy
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/11/tory-conservative-manifesto-rishi-sunak-uk-general-election-keir-starmer-labour-latest-live-updates[/url] @11:28 wrote:And not all of the subsidy ends up benefiting the buyer; in previous iterations of Help to Buy some of the subsidy instead benefited developers in the form of higher sale prices and profits.
And saw a bit of Sunak taking about how developers will be putting in 5% of the deposit ... but he couldn't appreciate the concept that a 1st time buyer might be buying a 2nd hand house, maybe from a private seller so what happens to the 5% then or is this a push for developer profits pushing buyers to buy new?

And why the perpetual need to buy. Why not also make renting more viable for tenants through better regulation?

Ian
I do understand the need to buy. It is one route to certainty and security, with the potential to leave your kids something you earned during your lifetime. My Dad (a building site worker all his working life) put his heart and soul into getting a house that he could pass on. It was his main source of pride, that he managed to do it.

But I agree that first time buyers are going to be looking primarily at older homes.
Stradageek
Posts: 1709
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Stradageek »

Either politicians cannot grasp that help for first time buyers just results in increased house prices, or they do realise and are just lining up a post government job with a property developer - take your pick.

The last time help for first time buyers was introduced the CEO of Persimmon walked off with a £100m bonus. To quote Keynes 'Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wicked of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone'

Neoliberalism, free market economics, whatever you want to call it will never help the poor; government control (that neoliberal anathema) is the only solution.

I'd suggest rent controls. Set maximum rents at council housing level plus 5%. Lots of landlords will be forced to sell up, house prices collapse, everyone is happy. Except perhaps the rich :lol:
Debs
Posts: 1371
Joined: 19 May 2017, 7:05pm
Location: Powys

Re: UK Politics

Post by Debs »

What exactly is a first time buyers house (?) ...a house anyone other has become well wise enough to side-step?
And the first time suckers who buy them will want to move out after a couple of weeks or as soon as they can afford somewhere better...
First time buyer houses are merely boxes to force people to live because they can't afford a proper house.

What's needed is family homes fit for young people to live life in, bring up the family and feel settled, even though this is not so good for the frequent house moves of young people who are then forced to provide funds for; surveyors, estate agents, solicitors, banks, removal firms, stamp duty, etc....

It's no wonder the birth rate has fallen so low.
Nearholmer
Posts: 4389
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

Well …… a fair proportion of those able to consider home ownership look for a small house, or a flat, as their first step, and often the point at which people look for a “family home” is once they are coupled-up and have children in prospect, so the idea of homes suitable for singles or childless couples starting out is neither entirely daft, nor new.

But, focusing help for first time buyers solely through new-build developers is very weird, it just doesn’t work as a solution, and frankly all these “help” schemes, however they are routed, do in a heavily constrained market is to cause price inflation.
pwa
Posts: 17610
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pwa »

Our first house purchase was a tiny terraced house that was originally two-up, two-down, before being extended slightly to allow for a bathroom and a kitchen. For a couple, just starting out, it was a start, and for about six years it was enough. When the first child arrived we started looking for something a bit bigger. So a first time home doesn't need to be a "family home" at all. That can be the second rung on the ladder.

This sort of thing ticks the boxes, and look at the price...
https://www.wattsandmorgan.co.uk/proper ... 076/?page=
Nearholmer
Posts: 4389
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

Notice the killer words in the first line of the blurb: “an ideal investment”.

That’s where a lot of FTB-type houses have gone, and where any new ones will go unless heavily covenanted: into the pockets of private landlords, who then rent them to the people who in a more sane world ought to be buying them.
Psamathe
Posts: 18304
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

Stradageek wrote: 11 Jun 2024, 1:07pm Either politicians cannot grasp that help for first time buyers just results in increased house prices, or they do realise and are just lining up a post government job with a property developer - take your pick.

The last time help for first time buyers was introduced the CEO of Persimmon walked off with a £100m bonus. To quote Keynes 'Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wicked of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone'
...
Does anybody really believe that developers will just accept 5% lower profit when a 1st time buyer is purchasing? Of course they wont, price will increase by 5% and for everybody even when developer is not stumping-up 5% contribution.

That politicians can't see this just highlights the poor capabilities of our politicians.

Ian
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