BEVs

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

I appreciate the BEV mostly because they...

cost less to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car
9
12%
are reducing the harm done to our planet and its lifeforms
11
14%
are quiet and smooth
7
9%
can be refuelled with my own renewable energy production
10
13%
can supply energy to the home and Grid
4
5%
No! I am concerned they are just another way of making the car seem acceptable
35
46%
 
Total votes: 76

Biospace
Posts: 2331
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 9:44pm I think we're in strenuous argreement :wink:
Definitely - I think most of us are, concerned that personal motorised transport is growing heavier, ever more complex and powerful, totally unnecessarily. And with it, so expensive that the social divide will widen rapidly with all the negative effects that will have on the nation.
UpWrong
Posts: 2556
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 2:00pm
al_yrpal wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 10:49am Electric microcars answer many of the problems in cities, but they need to be really inexpensive. I expect India to be the place that develops the right answer.
They'd solve some of the emissions,granted but not traffic jams nor would they reduce journey times.
If you remember I posted a video up thread showing Vietnam rushhour,which you scoffed at that all were riding small motorcycles and scooters.I reminded you atmthe time that if they were all in cars(no matter what size)the city would be gridlocked.
As I've posted before cars,with few genuine exceptions,need banning from town and city centres in favour of good public transport,taxis and twowheelers,powered or not,that would reduce journey times and cut emissions at a stroke,though such a move is too radical for politicians to contemplate no matter how healthy the outcome!
I think weather and safety considerations will always deter a good number of people from powered 2-wheelers. I rode motorbikes and scooters for the best part of 30 yrs without incident but my eyesight, balance and reactions are not as sharp now and I hesitate to chance my luck again.
Last edited by UpWrong on 15 Jun 2024, 8:10am, edited 1 time in total.
UpWrong
Posts: 2556
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 2:54pm EDIT:- There are still some small cars still being made today,Aygo,Fiat 500 and Panda,Citroen C1,VW Up.
All gone out of production in original small form factor except for the Fiat 500. Citroen have said they will not replace the C1 and have no plans to produce any new small cars. But the Ami is to continue, which is evidence that the quadricycle format is valid and viable.

I was very excited about the Dacia Spring as a small electric car, but I fear EU protectionism has killed it.
Jdsk
Posts: 26394
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Jdsk »

UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:01am
reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 2:54pm EDIT:- There are still some small cars still being made today,Aygo,Fiat 500 and Panda,Citroen C1,VW Up.
All gone out of production in original small form factor except for the Fiat 500. Citroen have said they will not replace the C1 and have no plans to produce any new small cars. But the Ami is to continue, which is evidence that the quadricycle format is valid and viable.
Details and pictures of the Fiat Grande Panda EV appeared yesterday:
https://www.media.stellantis.com/uk-en/ ... bal-player
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/meet-fun ... -panda-ev/

Closely related to the Citroën e-C3.

Jonathan
UpWrong
Posts: 2556
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

Jdsk wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:19am
UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:01am
reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 2:54pm EDIT:- There are still some small cars still being made today,Aygo,Fiat 500 and Panda,Citroen C1,VW Up.
All gone out of production in original small form factor except for the Fiat 500. Citroen have said they will not replace the C1 and have no plans to produce any new small cars. But the Ami is to continue, which is evidence that the quadricycle format is valid and viable.
Details and pictures of the Fiat Grande Panda EV appeared yesterday:
https://www.media.stellantis.com/uk-en/ ... bal-player
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/meet-fun ... -panda-ev/

Closely related to the Citroën e-C3.

Jonathan
And not a small car either - not to those of us who grew up with the original Mini, Morris 1100 etc.
reohn2
Posts: 45601
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 7:53am
reohn2 wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 2:00pm
al_yrpal wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 10:49am Electric microcars answer many of the problems in cities, but they need to be really inexpensive. I expect India to be the place that develops the right answer.
They'd solve some of the emissions,granted but not traffic jams nor would they reduce journey times.
If you remember I posted a video up thread showing Vietnam rushhour,which you scoffed at that all were riding small motorcycles and scooters.I reminded you atmthe time that if they were all in cars(no matter what size)the city would be gridlocked.
As I've posted before cars,with few genuine exceptions,need banning from town and city centres in favour of good public transport,taxis and twowheelers,powered or not,that would reduce journey times and cut emissions at a stroke,though such a move is too radical for politicians to contemplate no matter how healthy the outcome!
I think weather and safety considerations will always deter a good number of people from powered 2-wheelers. I rode motorbikes and scooters for the best part of 30 yrs without incident but my eyesight, balance and reactions are not as sharp now and I hesitate to chance my luck again.
Are these any use:-
https://www.piaggio.com/gb_EN/models/piaggio-mp3/

https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/gb/en/scoot ... -300-2024/

They can be ridden on a car licence and have a switch that locks the bike upright when stopped ie; at a TL or when parked.Not cheap mind,but the ideal commuter vehicle IMHO.
Powered twowheelers are no more dangerous than cycling if used properly.
Last edited by reohn2 on 15 Jun 2024, 9:11am, edited 1 time in total.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
UpWrong
Posts: 2556
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: BEVs

Post by UpWrong »

UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:25am
Jdsk wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:19am
UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 8:01am
All gone out of production in original small form factor except for the Fiat 500. Citroen have said they will not replace the C1 and have no plans to produce any new small cars. But the Ami is to continue, which is evidence that the quadricycle format is valid and viable.
Details and pictures of the Fiat Grande Panda EV appeared yesterday:
https://www.media.stellantis.com/uk-en/ ... bal-player
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/meet-fun ... -panda-ev/

Closely related to the Citroën e-C3.

Jonathan
And not a small car either - not to those of us who grew up with the original Mini, Morris 1100 etc.
Weights: Morris 1100, 832Kg; Citroen eC3, 1417Kg. Progress?
Biospace
Posts: 2331
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Biospace »

I noticed a cycling body recently remarked that more powerful motors on e-bikes would require larger batteries, which would not be a good thing owing to the dangers (posed to third parties) of the extra mass in an accident.

Why is there so little apparent concern for the enormous mass of modern motor cars?
reohn2
Posts: 45601
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 9:02am Weights: Morris 1100, 832Kg; Citroen eC3, 1417Kg. Progress?
WOW,what a difference!

Motorcycles are no different though not as stark:-
1968 Triumph Bonneville 170kgs
My 2020 Suzuki DL650 Vstrom 216kgs
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
the snail
Posts: 366
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: BEVs

Post by the snail »

reohn2 wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 12:20pm
UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 9:02am Weights: Morris 1100, 832Kg; Citroen eC3, 1417Kg. Progress?
WOW,what a difference!

Motorcycles are no different though not as stark:-
1968 Triumph Bonneville 170kgs
My 2020 Suzuki DL650 Vstrom 216kgs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... _Roads.png
Carlton green
Posts: 3988
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: BEVs

Post by Carlton green »

the snail wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 12:39pm
reohn2 wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 12:20pm
UpWrong wrote: 15 Jun 2024, 9:02am Weights: Morris 1100, 832Kg; Citroen eC3, 1417Kg. Progress?
WOW,what a difference!

Motorcycles are no different though not as stark:-
1968 Triumph Bonneville 170kgs
My 2020 Suzuki DL650 Vstrom 216kgs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... _Roads.png
That’s an interesting chart showing the decline road deaths over the decades. Perhaps you might care to explain the point that you’re trying to make, please.

I might be wrong but imho the factors that have contributed to lower road deaths include MOT’s, driving tests, drink drive laws, enforced speed limits and seat belts. Vehicle construction has probably helped too: there are less rust buckets on the road, vehicle brakes are better, cars have crumple zones, and tyres are better. Our roads are also better laid out than they used to be (leading to less operator error).

To my observation the biggest safety feature in any vehicle is the nut behind the steering wheel. Of course each individual is to some extent liable to suffer for the errors of others but your own actions make a vast difference too and that includes modifying your own behaviour to take account of the stupidity of others.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
reohn2
Posts: 45601
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

CG
I couldn't agree more,I too wondered about the point The Snail was making.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
the snail
Posts: 366
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: BEVs

Post by the snail »

reohn2 wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 7:44am CG
I couldn't agree more,I too wondered about the point The Snail was making.
Modern cars protect their occupants against driver stupidity much better than before. That Morris 1100 is probably a death-trap compared to a modern car. It will also be spewing out toxic fumes. So over all, I think most people would say that is progress.
reohn2
Posts: 45601
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: BEVs

Post by reohn2 »

the snail wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 10:29am
reohn2 wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 7:44am CG
I couldn't agree more,I too wondered about the point The Snail was making.
Modern cars protect their occupants against driver stupidity much better than before. That Morris 1100 is probably a death-trap compared to a modern car. It will also be spewing out toxic fumes. So over all, I think most people would say that is progress.
Here's a stat for you,my 14year old diesel Smax weighing in at 1.88tonnes returns in excess of 50mpg and has covered 106,000miles and I expect it to last at least another 60,000miles with just ordinary servicing from my very trustworthy local garage,should it blow the turbo or needs a clutch or some other £1000+ repair bill it will be repaired and still be a far better buy at £6,000 when I bought it 5 years ago with 50,000 miles on,yes it spews toxins but so do BEVs even before their built and their refuelling isn't at all green,unless the electricity comes from a renewable source,so just moves the toxins release to the nearest power station and can be very costly unless charged at home!

Here's a rant from YT about BEVs(the video is about Quintin Wilson but the first five minutes is about BEVs and how green and useful they're not :- https://youtu.be/OEj2DrzUFGk?si=gW1uBEXTmAwtjfz5

As for modern cars being protective of driver stupidity,yes you are correct they are,but they're also protective of the vast majority of good careful drivers too,and due to better design most cars are less damaging to vulnerable road users,not perfect but better than they ever were.
The problem with stupid drivers is that the law isn't harsh enough on them or even enforced properly,there are far too many stupid,arrogant and dangerous drivers getting away with murder,sometimes literally!

It's true older cars were less safe than their modern equivalents but death traps?I don't think so
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
the snail
Posts: 366
Joined: 5 Aug 2011, 3:11pm

Re: BEVs

Post by the snail »

reohn2 wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 11:04am
the snail wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 10:29am
reohn2 wrote: 16 Jun 2024, 7:44am CG
I couldn't agree more,I too wondered about the point The Snail was making.
Modern cars protect their occupants against driver stupidity much better than before. That Morris 1100 is probably a death-trap compared to a modern car. It will also be spewing out toxic fumes. So over all, I think most people would say that is progress.
Here's a stat for you,my 14year old diesel Smax weighing in at 1.88tonnes returns in excess of 50mpg and has covered 106,000miles and I expect it to last at least another 60,000miles with just ordinary servicing from my very trustworthy local garage,should it blow the turbo or needs a clutch or some other £1000+ repair bill it will be repaired and still be a far better buy at £6,000 when I bought it 5 years ago with 50,000 miles on,yes it spews toxins but so do BEVs even before their built and their refuelling isn't at all green,unless the electricity comes from a renewable source,so just moves the toxins release to the nearest power station and can be very costly unless charged at home!

Here's a rant from YT about BEVs(the video is about Quintin Wilson but the first five minutes is about BEVs and how green and useful they're not :- https://youtu.be/OEj2DrzUFGk?si=gW1uBEXTmAwtjfz5

As for modern cars being protective of driver stupidity,yes you are correct they are,but they're also protective of the vast majority of good careful drivers too,and due to better design most cars are less damaging to vulnerable road users,not perfect but better than they ever were.
The problem with stupid drivers is that the law isn't harsh enough on them or even enforced properly,there are far too many stupid,arrogant and dangerous drivers getting away with murder,sometimes literally!

It's true older cars were less safe than their modern equivalents but death traps?I don't think so
Well 14 years old is a lot more modern than a Morris 1100 (and newer than my van lol). Iremember being driven in a Mini in the 60s, no seatbelts, crumple zones etc. One day the drivers boy must have pulled on the cord that operated the door lock, and he fell out as we drove along - none of that nanny-state health and safety nonsense in those days. If you had a crash in one of those, it probably gave about as much protection as a crisp packet. To be honest, if I had to ride it regularly, I'd rather have the Suzuki than the Bonneville too.
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