UK Politics

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djnotts
Posts: 3240
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Jun 2024, 7:23pm Tactical voting calculator:
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

Jonathan
Thanks. Confirms my own thinking re my constituency. Starmer it is....
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote: 17 Jun 2024, 5:42pm
reohn2 wrote: 17 Jun 2024, 8:39am
francovendee wrote: 17 Jun 2024, 8:27am If Farage gets elected what does it say about the voters of Clacton?
Do you think he will though?
Yes.
Thanks
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

Yet they (Labour and Conservative) leap at every opportunity to deny thet'll do it. Why? Madness.
The only way to achieve greater fairness with no overall change in tax take is to rob Peter in order to pay Paula, and Peter will have a massive tantrum, which will be blasted all over the front pages of the ‘papers in hyperbolic language, illustrated with photos of Peter in his wheelchair, wearing his ten military medals, and surrounded by the forty-two injured kittens that he has rescued from certain death this week, and his dear old mum who happens to live with him after retiring from a century of tireless service to the NHS, despite her wooden leg.

Paula meanwhile, will be discovered to own a BMW, a villa on the Costa del Tasteless, and a massage parlour that everyone locally reckons is a bit dodgy, and have a black Roumanian live-in lover, whose immigration status is under investigation.

Cue endless appeals, chaired by an out of touch with reality judge who goes on to give deeply unhelpful interviews to the press after taking early retirement in the middle of the process.

Endless hassle and bad publicity, that’s why.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 8:06pm
pwa wrote: 14 Jun 2024, 7:56pm Which raises another question. Are Reform far right? As I said, they attract some folk who have bigoted views, but are Reform's stated policies actually far right? I'm not sure about that. The main parties are all promising some restraint of net migration, as most UK Governments have in the past, and I include Labour in that. That alone doesn't make a party far right. Okay, Reform want zero net migration straight away, which I think impractical, but is that difference enough to label them far right? What exactly does "far right" mean? I think we have to be able to make the racism tag stick to be able to use the term. I'm not seeing much if any racism in stated policies, but I occasionally hear Farage say something that sounds more than suspect. Enough to make me think that a few squeaky clean policies on some glossy paper can't hide an unpleasant undercurrent.
I think that it's essential to separate that into two families of questions, just as you identify:

Are what we know of the policies right-wing: I will get to that, but the short answer is that they're very nationalist.

Are the leaders, the candidates and the supporters right-wing? And or racist? That's easy because we have such good access to what they have said.
...
Interview with Farage after some investigations of candidates:
https://x.com/GMB/status/1802972521257423042

I'm expecting more revelations along the same lines.

Jonathan
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

I wonder how much of the Conservative poor polling is down to Johnson or Truss or Sunak or just that cost of living/NHS/etc. that the Conservatives have all failed to even try and address instead focussing on boats, NI tax cuts, etc. things that nobody was crying out for.

And then there is the issue as to the polls being right. I'm sure they are properly reporting and analysing what people are telling them, just are people being honest and/or swing mostly undecided giving a categoric answer rather than a don't know.

Ian
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 18 Jun 2024, 2:08pm ...
And then there is the issue as to the polls being right. I'm sure they are properly reporting and analysing what people are telling them, just are people being honest and/or swing mostly undecided giving a categoric answer rather than a don't know.
...
Apart from "honesty" of respondents there are differences in how different pollsters handle "don't knows":
https://news.sky.com/story/general-elec ... s-13145117

And then there's turnout...

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 18 Jun 2024, 2:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
Posts: 26425
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 18 Jun 2024, 2:08pm I wonder how much of the Conservative poor polling is down to Johnson or Truss or Sunak or just that cost of living/NHS/etc. that the Conservatives have all failed to even try and address instead focussing on boats, NI tax cuts, etc. things that nobody was crying out for.
...
We know a couple of things that might inform that: which issues are considered important (as upthread) and how voting intentions have changed since votes in previous elections and in one referendum.

Jonathan
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simonineaston
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Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: UK Politics

Post by simonineaston »

As time drifts gently by, we learn that many - most? - of us have decided how to vote waaaay before we think about the issues we see paraded before us. I wouldn't mind betting that the proportion of the electorate that actually read the manifestos of their favourite party is depressingly small.
As for the proportion of those who in the interests of thoroughness, read that of their fave as well as the others with a realistic chance of winning in their constituency, well I wouldn't mind betting its less than 5%...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Psamathe
Posts: 18458
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

simonineaston wrote: 18 Jun 2024, 2:54pm ... I wouldn't mind betting that the proportion of the electorate that actually read the manifestos of their favourite party is depressingly small....
Though how much of that is because history has taught us that politicians don't seem to stand by their manifesto commitments.

eg Conservative voters have been looking forward to the scrapping of inheritance tax for many elections and yet when it came to cutting taxes the same Conservatives cut National Insurance.

eg for multiple elections the Conservatives have been promising to get net immigration down to the tens of thousands yet the moment the same party actually "got control of our borders" they allow record numbers.

Personally I'm glad the Conservatives never kept those manifesto pledges but it does illustrate that manifesto pledges are pretty meaningless the day after the election result is announced.

And does anybody really believe Labour will get the growth it needs and fast enough to not have to put up taxes as per their manifesto drafted by Hans Christian Andersen.

Farage even pretty much said their manifesto (in all but name) wasn't realistic because they'd never get elected anyway (implication to me being "lets give everybody a good laugh").

Ian
Mike Sales
Posts: 8113
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Mike Sales »

Psamathe wrote: 18 Jun 2024, 3:15pm

Farage even pretty much said their manifesto (in all but name) wasn't realistic because they'd never get elected anyway (implication to me being "lets give everybody a good laugh").

Ian
The Marx Brothers had a short way with contracts and escape clauses.
Driftwood : It's all right, that's in every contract. That's what they call a sanity clause. Fiorello : You can't fool me! There ain't no Sanity Claus!
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Just one of the many things the Tories have achieved(20second video):- https://youtube.com/shorts/9B6pjN4jcLY? ... jVwKHfJw3E
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

One big social ill that none have any hope of solving is housing. For example:

"According to the most recent housing affordability data, external, the average cost of a home in St Albans is £640,000. That is nearly 18 times the £36,353 average earnings people here make." (BBC News)

I know medians would be more telling than averages, but even so...

Typical min wage retail e.g. jobs show an even more ridiculous disparity, with house prices c.35 times earnings.

The touted planning rules changes need to include "tent cities".
Psamathe
Posts: 18458
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

On radio this morning poor Ms Reeves didn't manage well when quizzed about how they are going to pay bills in the short term. Best she could manage was "We're going to boost growth" but when interviewer push about how that takes time (it it works atall) and they'll have increased spending very soon which needs to be paid for, she really didn't have an answer and it was very obvious she didn't have an answer.

The More of Less looking at Labour's mad twaddle about what the Conservatives will be adding to your mortgage. even more ludicrous numbers than the conservative £200 claim. More or Less totally pulls Labour's claim appart.

Labour coming across increasingly badly. The Emperor has no clothes.

Ian
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Jun 2024, 7:47pm Cycling UK's manifesto for the general election:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/general-elect ... AhRFsdFzkE
"Will your candidates support healthy and sustainable transport choices?":
https://action.cyclinguk.org/page/15075 ... cale=en-GB

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 26425
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 19 Jun 2024, 4:31pm
Jdsk wrote: 5 Jun 2024, 7:47pm Cycling UK's manifesto for the general election:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/general-elect ... AhRFsdFzkE
"Will your candidates support healthy and sustainable transport choices?":
https://action.cyclinguk.org/page/15075 ... cale=en-GB
"Comparison of party manifesto pledges for cycling":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/general-elect ... to-pledges

Jonathan
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