UK Politics

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Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

pwa wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 5:14am
Psamathe wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 10:52am One thing we can't deny is that Sunak has changed the "wild party" cl=ulture in No 10. Moved from a hard-drinking, non-stop partying into an illicit illegal gambling den.

And Sunak might be "furious" about the betting, is he furious that people were gambling or that "you're never going to become a multi-millionaire (like me) placing just £100 bets! Think big!".
He will be furious that precious days are being lost dealing with this distraction when he wants to be winning people over on the big issues of the campaign. It's all going wrong for him. Luckily he doesn't really need the job.
Yes, total incompetence in selecting and managing his staff and now the campaign team. This will be studied for years to come.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

geocycle wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 9:01am I’m sorry but Sunak is tainted with 14 years of corruption and bad behaviour. I was discussing with a Ghanaian yesterday and he made the good point that corruption is worse here than there because at least the Ghanaians recognise they have a problem. Starmer is a politician who waxes and wanes to achieve an objective, Davey has come over as a nice guy thanks to a well pitched campaign.
Sunak is trying an interesting line; he was appointed so recently that he can't be held responsible for what happened before he was. That's never going to wash in our *party-based system for the executive.

But he could have gone flat-out against that corruption and bad behaviour in the limited time that he had available. AFAICT he didn't, and the betting scandal will inevitably be seen in that context. We'll probably find out whether his staff were explicitly warned or not, but of course they should have known anyway.

Jonathan

* Choose your own meaning for party, and similarly for convictions... ; - )
PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4706
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by PDQ Mobile »

pwa wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 5:10am
reohn2 wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 5:55pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 5:46pm There's only three candidates in the picture, though one has never won a UK seat!
He has been all over the front pages and BBC.
Quite significantly uneven and unfair exposure IMO.


F012DAD1-D1A3-45A6-BDAC-57AF3435CA65.png
Ain't that the truth,one has to wonder why...... :?
I don't like him, but he is polling about 17%, which puts him above the Liberals and not far behind the Conservatives. That makes him worthy of coverage. Add to that the fact that he is good at making provocative statements that grab the headlines for a short time. If the main TV and online news channels didn't report it, it would still seep out and it would then have the added attraction of suppressed news, or "stuff they would rather you didn't know". Better to get it out there and let the other parties rip into it. And so far, 83% of the electorate who have declared a preference have rejected Reform.
Which shows how naive you are about the power of the media to influence.
You liked him enough in 2016 to vote for his nasty politics.
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 5:10am
reohn2 wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 5:55pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 5:46pm There's only three candidates in the picture, though one has never won a UK seat!
He has been all over the front pages and BBC.
Quite significantly uneven and unfair exposure IMO.


F012DAD1-D1A3-45A6-BDAC-57AF3435CA65.png
Ain't that the truth,one has to wonder why...... :?
I don't like him, but he is polling about 17%, which puts him above the Liberals and not far behind the Conservatives. That makes him worthy of coverage. Add to that the fact that he is good at making provocative statements that grab the headlines for a short time. If the main TV and online news channels didn't report it, it would still seep out and it would then have the added attraction of suppressed news, or "stuff they would rather you didn't know". Better to get it out there and let the other parties rip into it. And so far, 83% of the electorate who have declared a preference have rejected Reform.
I'm glad 83% of the electorate see straight through this Trump-alike snake oil salesman,who might juuusstttt get into Parliament at the eighth attempt.
As for the UK media,his exposure by them shows who's really pulling the levers of power.......

He's one nasty little piece of work who between him,Boris Johnson and said media,took this country out of Europe making life more difficult for us all.
Sickly creeps the lot of them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
Posts: 18458
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 9:04am
pwa wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 5:14am
Psamathe wrote: 22 Jun 2024, 10:52am One thing we can't deny is that Sunak has changed the "wild party" cl=ulture in No 10. Moved from a hard-drinking, non-stop partying into an illicit illegal gambling den.

And Sunak might be "furious" about the betting, is he furious that people were gambling or that "you're never going to become a multi-millionaire (like me) placing just £100 bets! Think big!".
He will be furious that precious days are being lost dealing with this distraction when he wants to be winning people over on the big issues of the campaign. It's all going wrong for him. Luckily he doesn't really need the job.
Yes, total incompetence in selecting and managing his staff and now the campaign team. This will be studied for years to come.

Jonathan
But in Sunak's case there is a lot of personal stupidity. Whatever advisers and appointees are saying when you get in that car to walk out on D-Day Remembrance events something in your own brain should be screaming "this is wrong" irrespective of advice. When you get in that helicopter replacing a cheap fast low carbon train you brain should be saying "remember Climate Change" and when you do the same again a few weeks later, and again ...

I see it as going beyond selecting and managing but only a complete fool would appoint somebody and then blindly follow their instruction contrary to one's own moral compass & common sense.

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 18458
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/tory-mps-paid-100000-of-public-funds-to-partys-in-house-web-designers wrote:More than 120 Conservative MPs, including Jeremy Hunt, Liz Truss, Sajid Javid and Gillian Keegan, paid £100,000 of taxpayers’ money to the Conservatives’ in-house web design services, it can be revealed.

The MPs used the Bluetree website service to design their websites. When billed by Bluetree, they would pay for the sites then claim back the costs from the public purse via expenses, prompting a complaint to parliament’s expenses watchdog about the practice.

Conservative Campaign Headquarters (CCHQ) has denied Bluetree is wholly owned by the party and says it is a separate organisation, but repeatedly refused to deny the party receives income from the company, saying it has “commercial arrangements with CCHQ”.
It never ends.

Ian
Jdsk
Posts: 26425
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2024, 10:20am
Jdsk wrote: 19 Mar 2024, 9:55am From another thread:
All the signs are that a Starmer gov, even with a large majority, is going to disappoint those hoping for a major change in UK politics. There are clear signs of a shift away from radical policies (e.g. green agenda) towards the right, and Rachel Reeves is already buttering up and accepting large donations from the usual lobby groups - e.g. gambling.

Combined with the dire financial state that will be inherited, I'm afraid the best that can be hoped for is a change in morality - i.e. fewer dodgy Tory MP's - but not much else.
This is such an important point: improving the behaviour of the executive is crucial, and quite different from any changes in policy, whether economic, social or on any other axis.

"Trust in Public Life: Restoring the Rôle of Constitutional Watchdogs":
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit ... ublic-life
"Our democracy desperately needs a reset – and, behind the scenes, that’s the plan":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rty-labour

includes:

"The speech was not awash with revelations, and Powell could not compete with the procedural nerdiness of some of those present. Yet she only had to rehearse her three stated priorities – improving parliamentary workplace culture, strengthening MPs’ scrutiny of the legislative programme and restoring trust and respect towards parliament – to show that, if they could convincingly be put into practice, these plans could mark a huge change in the way the House of Commons works, and could improve the reputation of politics. Not before time, in either case."
Restoring trust in the political class
"Sir, Trust in politics, and in the people and institutions of public life, is at an all-time low. This is a serious problem for the health of our democracy and is indicative of the need for substantial improvement in the governance of the UK. It must be urgently addressed by whichever party forms the next government. The Institute for Government, the UCL Constitution Unit and the UK Governance Project today issue a joint call for that government to announce, on taking office, seven key changes that would restore integrity and rebuild trust.
"Essential progress can be quickly achieved by providing independent enforcement of a new ministerial code; establishing new systems for managing conflicts of interest and lobbying; improving regulation of post-government employment; ensuring appointments to the Lords are only made on merit and other public appointments are rigorous and transparent; and strengthening the independence of the honours system, including by ending prime ministerial patronage. Legislation is not necessary for most of these changes but a short bill would create the necessary powers and embed the independence of the ethics and integrity system. This election is a rare opportunity to reverse the spiral of declining trust in government and one that would be dangerous to miss. Whoever enters No 10 on July 5 must seize it."
Hannah White, director of the Institute for Government
Professor Meg Russell, director, UCL Constitution Unit
Helen MacNamara, former deputy cabinet secretary and head of the cabinet secretariat
Dominic Grieve KC, former attorney general for England and Wales
Rain Newton-Smith, director-general of the CBI
Lord Lisvane, former clerk of the House of Commons
Daniel Bruce, chief executive, Transparency International UK
Susan Hawley, executive director, Spotlight on Corruption
Jennifer Nadel, co-director, Compassion in Politics
Tom Brake , director, Unlock Democracy
Darren Hughes, chief executive, Electoral Reform Society
Professor Liz David-Barrett, director, Centre for the Study of Corruption
Professor Robert Hazell, former director, UCL Constitution Unit
Peter Riddell, former commissioner for public appointments
Dame Margaret Hodge, former chairwoman of the public accounts committee
Professor David Howarth, professor of law and public policy, University of Cambridge
Sir Jonathan Jones KC, former Treasury solicitor and head of the government legal service
Lord Burns, former Treasury permanent secretary
Lord Jay, former FCO permanent secretary
Professor Anand Menon, director of UK in a Changing Europe and professor of European politics and foreign affairs at King’s College London
Lord Neuberger of Abbotsbury, former president of the Supreme Court
Baroness Prashar, former first civil service commissioner
Lord Anderson of Ipswich, former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation
Lord Sumption, former justice of the Supreme Court
Baroness Hayman, former Lord Speaker
Baroness D’Souza, former Lord Speaker
Oliver Letwin, former chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
Baroness Wheatcroft, former editor of The Sunday Telegraph
Philip Rycroft, former head of UK Governance Group, Cabinet Office
Philip Rutnam, former Home Office permanent secretary
Clare Moriarty, former permanent secretary, Defra
Lord McDonald of Salford, former FCO permanent Secretary
Baroness Browning, electoral commissioner 2010-12, chairwoman of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments 2014-2019, member of the House of Lords Appointments Commission 2018-23
Sir David Normington, first civil service commissioner and commissioner for public appointments 2011-16
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Jdsk »

And DAG's reaction:
"Seven changes for a better constitution? Some interesting proposals from some good people.":
https://davidallengreen.com/2024/06/sev ... od-people/

Jonathan
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5873
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Cugel »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Jun 2024, 9:27am And DAG's reaction:
"Seven changes for a better constitution? Some interesting proposals from some good people.":
https://davidallengreen.com/2024/06/sev ... od-people/

Jonathan
A quote from that link:

"Of course, changes to form and structure can only take us so far. The biggest problem of recent years has been an underlying lack of constitutionalism from government ministers (cheered and clapped by their political supporters). And until attitudes change, then rules will always be gamed or ignored and discretions abused".

Do you really think that tinkering with various bits of "the system" will change anything for the better when politics and a long list of our national institutions are populated by the ilk that populate them now? This stuff reminds me of that dire notion that, "We'll change the culture to make things better".

The problem is that "the culture" changes us, not the other way 'round. Once a body (biological or a body politic) goes rotten its more or less impossible to bring it back to life. We're much more likely to see (if we survive the process) a new life form of politics arise from the corpse of the old one. The most likely life form currently looks monstrous.

For details, see Russian, Chinese and USA history. Or the history of a hundred other polities ravaged by such transformations.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Psamathe wrote: 23 Jun 2024, 12:00pm
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/tory-mps-paid-100000-of-public-funds-to-partys-in-house-web-designers wrote:More than 120 Conservative MPs, including Jeremy Hunt, Liz Truss, Sajid Javid and Gillian Keegan, paid £100,000 of taxpayers’ money to the Conservatives’ in-house web design services, it can be revealed.

The MPs used the Bluetree website service to design their websites. When billed by Bluetree, they would pay for the sites then claim back the costs from the public purse via expenses, prompting a complaint to parliament’s expenses watchdog about the practice.

Conservative Campaign Headquarters (CCHQ) has denied Bluetree is wholly owned by the party and says it is a separate organisation, but repeatedly refused to deny the party receives income from the company, saying it has “commercial arrangements with CCHQ”.
It never ends.

Ian
And these are only the things we are aware of,how many more remain hidden by the most corrupt UK political party and government in living memory?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

Wild off-the-wall thought: We have a housing crisis, not enough houses for people to live in. We have a 2nd home crisis with some areas suffering excessive prices due to 2nd home ownership.

So, have a 12 month no Capital Gains Tax for people selling 2nd homes sale completed within the 12 months.

It would maybe cost a bit but people taking the opportunity might easily not sell without it so still wouldn't be paying Capital Gains Tax.

Ian
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Psamathe wrote: 24 Jun 2024, 7:34pm Wild off-the-wall thought: We have a housing crisis, not enough houses for people to live in. We have a 2nd home crisis with some areas suffering excessive prices due to 2nd home ownership.

So, have a 12 month no Capital Gains Tax for people selling 2nd homes sale completed within the 12 months.

It would maybe cost a bit but people taking the opportunity might easily not sell without it so still wouldn't be paying Capital Gains Tax.

Ian
It won't help young local people who can't afford homes where they were born and brought up,or any local industry that can't find the workers due to them having to move away to find somewhere they can afford to live.
The whole scenario is a wo/man made disaster brought about by corruption in politics and totally selfish people with too much money!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

^^^

And, it is the unintended, but foreseen, consequence of how complete meltdown of the financial sector was staved-off after the 2008 banking crisis, when the measures applied consolidated more and more property wealth into the hands of those who already owned equity in property at the time.

IMO, a lot of what has gone on since 2008, not just in the UK, can be read as the after-shocks of the 2008 financial crisis, and the methods used to prevent acute consequences. It’s like the pandemic: the thing itself, and the things done to prevent really severe acute consequences have had and continue to have profound chronic consequences.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 25 Jun 2024, 9:29am, edited 2 times in total.
reohn2
Posts: 45642
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Nearholmer wrote: 25 Jun 2024, 8:43am ^^^

And, it is the unintended, but foreseen, consequence of how complete meltdown of the financial sector was staved-off after the 2008 banking crisis, when the measures applied consolidated more and more property wealth into the hands of those who already owned equity in property at the time.
Yer not wrong,though "unintended" maybe,maybe not,the wealthy sit on it waiting for the right time,the rest have to work.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
Posts: 18458
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by Psamathe »

Tuesday's DAILY TELEGRAPH: Scotland Yard 'leaked names' in Tory betting scandal
Conservatives with their illegal gambling ring now trying to make out they are the victims rather than the perpetrators.

Ian
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