Ex-Post Office CEO Paula Vennells

[axel_knutt]

It's almost as if those at the top have made sure the public don't find out anything which they wish to conceal. Ofcom and other bodies acting as their obedient poodles.

Wot, a conspiracy? Really? Surely not.

[toontra]

JB continues to spear Jenkins over and again. He's in this up to his neck, whether at PO's behest or for his own motives - e. g. defending his baby - Horizon - at all costs.

One almost feels pity for his pathetic performance at the enquiry we're it not for the devastating consequences of his incompetence/venality.

[Bonefishblues]

His employers were also content for him to appear as an Expert Witness and he was in active liaison with Fujitsu's Legal Dept IIRC. I am still of the opinion he's been played by others, and is now looking like a fish stranded when the tide has gone out.

[simonineaston]

JB continues to spear Jenkins over and again. He's in this up to his neck, whether at PO's behest or for his own motives - e. g. defending his baby - Horizon - at all costs.

One almost feels pity for his pathetic performance at the enquiry we're it not for the devastating consequences of his incompetence/venality.

I’ve not seen this sort of thing much before, but the one thing that comes across as so important is the difference between how one feels about the characters involved and what the evidence actually suggests.
Some witnesses are much harder to like than others (I think we all have some of the same individuals on our lists!) but that doesn't necessarily mean we can use that feeling to add extra weight to their evidence.
I've never done jury service and on the whole I’m glad I haven't.

[Bonefishblues]

JB continues to spear Jenkins over and again. He's in this up to his neck, whether at PO's behest or for his own motives - e. g. defending his baby - Horizon - at all costs.

One almost feels pity for his pathetic performance at the enquiry we're it not for the devastating consequences of his incompetence/venality.

I’ve not seen this sort of thing much before, but the one thing that comes across as so important is the difference between how one feels about the characters involved and what the evidence actually suggests.
Some witnesses are much harder to like than others (I think we all have some of the same individuals on our lists!) but that doesn't necessarily mean we can use that feeling to add extra weight to their evidence.
I've never done jury service and on the whole I’m glad I haven't.

Good points.

re Jury Service - that's part of why there are 12 Jurors. We unpicked the evidence in accordance with the Judge's Instructions and some people changed their minds.

[LollyKat]

Over the years I’ve turned up to the Sheriff Court for jury service six times, and three times got as far as the ballot, but my name was never picked. The last time two young men (cousins) were accused of robbery with violence of a jewellers’ shop - as soon as they swaggered in in their very sharp suits I though to myself “Guilty as H—!” Fortunately my name didn’t come up in the ballot. I kept an eye on the case though, and my instincts were correct - they were both sent down for 3-4 years.

I was called for jury service a 7th time, this time in the High Court, but fortunately by then was just too old.

[Biospace]

Having just watched https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0021cxh I'm reminded that it's possible these people and their families will never be properly recompensed for their suffering and trauma.

The inability of the legal system as well as all other state apparatus to recognise what so many individuals were pointing out with clear evidence twenty years ago should be a huge concern to every British person.

How has Parliament, the legal service or big business changed in the meantime?

[axel_knutt]

Interesting that the Horizon system is still making accounting errors even now.

[Cugel]

How has Parliament, the legal service or big business changed in the meantime?

Likely things have became worse for any of the hoi-polloi that become enmeshed in the machinations of these rogues. Business will have learned more PR and legal tricks to avoid or hide their damaging ways whilst politicians will have found more ways to support them, legally and procedurally. The legal profession, as ever, will continue to be paid to make cases rather than reveal any kind of truth. Hiding truth is more their style, as this PO case belatedly reveals.

Money-making rules in the capitalist world. People are just "a resource" and may be degraded, used up or discarded if it increases a profit, salary, bonus or share value. "It's just how the world works" - because that's how the rogues make it work and always will, if we hoi-polloi continue to ignore their evil doings in exchange for a chance at consuming gew-gaws and circus shows.

[reohn2]

How has Parliament, the legal service or big business changed in the meantime?

Likely things have became worse for any of the hoi-polloi that become enmeshed in the machinations of these rogues. Business will have learned more PR and legal tricks to avoid or hide their damaging ways whilst politicians will have found more ways to support them, legally and procedurally. The legal profession, as ever, will continue to be paid to make cases rather than reveal any kind of truth. Hiding truth is more their style, as this PO case belatedly reveals.

Money-making rules in the capitalist world. People are just "a resource" and may be degraded, used up or discarded if it increases a profit, salary, bonus or share value. "It's just how the world works" - because that's how the rogues make it work and always will, if we hoi-polloi continue to ignore their evil doings in exchange for a chance at consuming gew-gaws and circus shows.

Too right,but how I wish it weren't!

[simonineaston]

Anyone curious to know exactly when it was that POL first knew about the issues with Horizon should check out the evidence of one Jason Coyne, the first third-party system analyst employed by POL themselves to look at Horizon. It was 2003. Everything after his report was a cover-up.
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366 ... ut-Horizon

[Biospace]

Likely things have became worse for any of the hoi-polloi that become enmeshed in the machinations of these rogues. Business will have learned more PR and legal tricks to avoid or hide their damaging ways whilst politicians will have found more ways to support them, legally and procedurally. The legal profession, as ever, will continue to be paid to make cases rather than reveal any kind of truth. Hiding truth is more their style, as this PO case belatedly reveals.

Money-making rules in the capitalist world. People are just "a resource" and may be degraded, used up or discarded if it increases a profit, salary, bonus or share value. "It's just how the world works" - because that's how the rogues make it work and always will, if we hoi-polloi continue to ignore their evil doings in exchange for a chance at consuming gew-gaws and circus shows.

We appear to have taken on the worst practices from across the pond, in addition to our own selfish habits. Although there were exemplary individuals acting within the legal business, I feel that the profession as a whole will continue to come out of this scandal very poorly. How can the public trust our supposedly independent legal system when it has been shown to be so easily led away from the facts?

Anyone curious to know exactly when it was that POL first knew about the issues with Horizon should check out the evidence of one Jason Coyne, the first third-party system analyst employed by POL themselves to look at Horizon. It was 2003. Everything after his report was a cover-up.
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366 ... ut-Horizon

Yes, exactly. This is a classic case of people hiding behind smart suits, desks and computers/filing cabinets while the more honest, hard working person on the ground was repeatedly demonised and ignored. There should be ground-shaking changes being made off the back of what happened, yet it would appear almost nothing will change.

[Bonefishblues]

There seems to be a supposition that this is widespread behaviour, rather than an outlier in the form of the PO.

I can imagine that CEOs have been summoning their heads of Corporate Governance and asking some pointed questions as a direct result of this - unless of course they and their boards are already 'at it', in which case there will be some frantic covering of tracks.

[briansnail]

There should be ground-shaking changes being made off the back of what happened, yet it would appear almost nothing will change.

To right mate.A BBC documentary aired this week.

Said Horizon was still used.Bugs still caused shortfalls

.The only difference is The Post Office have dropped prosecutions.A new £130 million system is in the pipe line.

Lets hope it works better then Horizon.
****************************
I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531

[Jdsk]

Concerns also in Scotland about blanket exoneration:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sh-victims

Conditions announced today:
Mr Hollinrake said the new legislation would overturn all convictions that met certain criteria. It will only cover:
• convictions from the Post Office and CPS
• "relevant offences", such as theft and false accounting
• sub-postmasters and their employees or family members
• cases where the offence took place during the time that the Horizon system (and its pilots) was in operation
• cases where the convicted person was working in a Post Office that was using the Horizon system software (including relevant pilot schemes)
• cases in England and Wales
However, the government said it would work with the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive to ensure their schemes to quash convictions were "compatible with the UK compensation scheme".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68369015

More details of the exoneration and compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-scandal

"Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Act 2024: updated open letter to postmasters"
"An updated open letter to postmasters setting out next steps for those whose convictions were quashed by the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Act 2024."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ostmasters

"New redress scheme opens for postmasters with overturned convictions":
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... onvictions
Victims will have the choice of taking a fixed settlement of £600,000 or having a fully detailed assessment.

Jonathan