Anyone gone back to 'normal' bikes?

[pjclinch]

I've been riding recumbents for years now, and own some different designs, so I think I have a fairly balanced view of their pros and cons.

I'm kind of wondering if a regular bike might make more sense for many types of riding...

Not so much "gone back to" as never entirely left.

I use my recumbent for road based leisure rides, either day trips or longer tours, and I wouldn't want to swap it for anything for that. However, my other bikes are upwrongs, and I feel that they work better in their particular niches than a 'bent would. These are...

• Folder, a Brompton folds quicker and smaller than any 'bent.
• Mountain bike, if it's properly gnarly terrain then being able to get on your feet and move weight around for balance, steering and shock absorption is pretty fundamental. My touring 'bent can do the odd bit of gravel and paths through woods etc. but it won't work on actual MTB trails without a lot of hike-a-bike.
• Cargo, there just aren't that many 'bent cargo bikes available and even if there were my particular cargo bike is selected partly for relative lightness and ease of manhandling.
• General hack bike, I use a Moulton SST as a general purpose do-everything-reasonably-well bike. It rides better than the Brom, is quicker on the streets than the others and more comfortable than anything aside from the 'bent. It takes enough luggage for most jobs and is much, much easier to manhandle, filter through traffic, hop up kerbs etc. than the 'bent.

Much as I love my Streetmachine out on the open road it's pretty clumsy in dense urban traffic and is a bit of a nightmare to manhandle, and hopping tree roots and slaloming between trees is not its forte.

Pete.

[[XAP]Bob]

Yep - each has advantages.
Personally the vast majority of my riding was always commuting.
- There was one short commute (maybe a mile) where I could walk or hop on an old MTB.
- I had one train commute where a borrowed brompton was easily the best choice
- I had one 5 mile commute (10 miles a day) where I'd use a vintage upright, or a tandem which I was servicing, or a bent trike
... but the majority of my commutes where 10-15 miles each way, and despite using that MTB for a while when I started, the bent was always the better option. If only I'd bought a velomobile 15 years earlier...

[Grldtnr]

Ok , your 'fleshing' out your capabilities, and what you have, depending on your current 3 wheeler, could you put a wheelie on a rack,
It's very true just being a trike is an anti theft device,I've tried riding g an upwrong trike , but got seduced by my recumbent instead it's an Azub, and quite robustly built. Mainly used for cycle camping, as it gives me somewhere to sit of an evening !
Strapping a wheelie to a trike carrier first depend on how or if it folds.b5hen if you can actually strap it on.
Pricing is of course another factor, the cheaper Cargo trikes are available for around £800, or less, but then these are far eastern manufacture, in my opinion you are best going with a European built cargo trike.

[Psamathe]

Ok , your 'fleshing' out your capabilities, and what you have, depending on your current 3 wheeler, could you put a wheelie on a rack,
It's very true just being a trike is an anti theft device,I've tried riding g an upwrong trike , but got seduced by my recumbent instead it's an Azub, and quite robustly built. Mainly used for cycle camping, as it gives me somewhere to sit of an evening !
Strapping a wheelie to a trike carrier first depend on how or if it folds.b5hen if you can actually strap it on.
Pricing is of course another factor, the cheaper Cargo trikes are available for around £800, or less, but then these are far eastern manufacture, in my opinion you are best going with a European built cargo trike.

I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve ([XAP]Bob being one of the very experienced recumbent trike riders on the forum - gave me loads of advice when I was choosing my configuration several years back).

@[XAP]Bob still using/developing your velomobile?

Ian

[Psamathe]

That an awful debilitating ailment. ....

Nope - though it's actually far less debilitating than you might expect, and certainly far less than many of the variable balance ailments around. I know exactly how I'm going to feel from day to day, it doesn't change. People with BPPV or others don't know what they're going to wake up to in the morning - ....

Probably very difficult to compare predictability with variability as like comparing apples and peanuts. Plus question of degree can also be significant as in how bad is bad.

Variability can be a problem but again depending on timescales eg day by day being different must be difficult but week by week with a build up is not good but manageable, particularly if you refuse to let it dictate your life eg I was independently travelling India (alone) and at one point could hardly walk across hostel room for a few days - but I got on well with hostel owner and I'd struggle up to roof and he'd cook me meals.

Ian

[Cowsham]

There are hand cycle attachments - but they’re stupidly priced.

I don’t need hand cranks (my legs are fine, it’s my inner ear that’s wrecked), but pedalling from the wheelchair would be difficult - I’d likely just add an electric motor to the front, the challenge then is having enough weight on that front wheel to grip up a hill.

That an awful debilitating ailment. Is there nothing than can be done as a work around ? like some sort of audio signal that can give you a sense of balance ie when you are at optimum posture / balance the tone is like a sign wave etc -- ( it would be like using your sense of hearing to learn balance ) you'll know what I mean.

Nope - though it's actually far less debilitating than you might expect, and certainly far less than many of the variable balance ailments around. I know exactly how I'm going to feel from day to day, it doesn't change. People with BPPV or others don't know what they're going to wake up to in the morning - that's debilitating because you can't plan *anything* with any degree of confidence.
There are three basic systems you use for balance - vestibular (including otolith), visual, and somatosensory information are all used, and each make up for weaknesses in the other. If you have a working vestibular system you can make do with only one of the others (so you can walk in the dark for instance), but without that the others have to sort of "make do". They are *substantially* slower than the inner ear, and in addition to that they are sensitive to gross movements, rather than acceleration, so they can only start to tell you that you're falling once you've already moved some distance.
There is the additional complication that the vestibular system is directly connected (through just three nerves, it's the one of the fastest reflex in the human body, ten times faster than blinking if something touches your eye) to the eyes through the VOR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibulo–ocular_reflex). And without any input... I don't have that reflex, at all - which means I have persistent oscillopsia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillopsia) - when my head moves, I see the world move in the other direction. And that happens for even *tiny* movements, so when I talk my head and jaw are moving against each other, and the world bounces, if I hold my head really still I can watch my heart beat as the varying pressure in my arteries moves my head minutely.
That sounds awful, but remember I don't have any conflicting signal from my inner ear, so there is no nausea associated. it just makes focussing on things more difficult, and I now have a super power... I am clinically unable to be motion sick (got to take the wins when they're available).

I can walk... assuming that nothing around me moves, and I have taken a number of precautions to ensure, for example, that I can feel the floor properly - but I do look rather drunk whilst doing so. It's far safer out and about to use a chair, and I've become quite adept at doing so.

Towing the chair is an option, but I had a kiddie trailer (empty) bounce off a "feature" in the road and land on it's side... I won't/can't risk doing that to my chair.

Well you live and learn -- it's amazing how the body has so many systems working together to give the sense of being.

[[XAP]Bob]

Ok , your 'fleshing' out your capabilities, and what you have, depending on your current 3 wheeler, could you put a wheelie on a rack,
It's very true just being a trike is an anti theft device,I've tried riding g an upwrong trike , but got seduced by my recumbent instead it's an Azub, and quite robustly built. Mainly used for cycle camping, as it gives me somewhere to sit of an evening !
Strapping a wheelie to a trike carrier first depend on how or if it folds.b5hen if you can actually strap it on.
Pricing is of course another factor, the cheaper Cargo trikes are available for around £800, or less, but then these are far eastern manufacture, in my opinion you are best going with a European built cargo trike.

I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve ([XAP]Bob being one of the very experienced recumbent trike riders on the forum - gave me loads of advice when I was choosing my configuration several years back).

@[XAP]Bob still using/developing your velomobile?

Ian

Yep

Its current configuration is a 28 speed (2 speed Schlumpf HSD (38/95) to a Rolhoff) drive which gives me 17” to 224” gearing.
It doesn’t feel like it rewards effort put in uphill , but I’m pushing my average speed over the local 13-14 mile loop of over 16mph (still really unfit and fat), including round the local reservoir at 18+, and Mallory park racetrack was faster still.
Recently added an anti fog insert to the visor, and that’s working well.
Keeping out of the weather really doesn’t get boring.

Addressable RGB LEDs on the front of the wing mirrors and in two stripes down the rear give me running lights (blinking), as well as indicators and solid rear as well as brake lights. Also a vertical chasing pair of orange LEDs to act as sort of virtual pedal reflectors.
For the reasons discussed above I don’t go out in the dark, so it’s all RVLR compliant (and probably sufficient, except that I have massive areas of red reflector rather than a kite marked one, and obviously pedals are reflectorless.

Going out at lunch breaks the working day nicely - and hopefully I can shed another 15kg (already ten down) to get back to a more appropriate height

As for the chair - I have considered strapping it to the back of the trike, I just haven’t thought about it for long enough when I’ve had both with me…
A motorised attachment would probably see use in a few places, but the gap between “need the help” and “it’s too steep, there’s no weight on the front wheel” is relatively narrow. One alternative is to get an e scooter and set it up as a pusher on the camber tube. That way at least the weight helps the traction, but control is a potential challenge.
I’ll keep playing with ideas for a few years probably - I like the engineering challenge.

It’s taken me a while to learn how to ride the upwrong trike, whilst they are a different beast the controls feel familiar, and it’s hard to forget how to ride a bike (even if I can’t do it, I can still remember how it’s meant to work).

[[XAP]Bob]

Accidental repost deleted.

[Psamathe]

Its current configuration is a 28 speed (2 speed Schlumpf HSD (38/95) to a Rolhoff) drive which gives me 17” to 224” gearing.
...

I switched to a Rohloff but with a GRX 30/46 on the front derailleur which gives me 13.6” to 110” (on my Sprint X Tour, 26" rear). This summer tour I was well impressed, loved it. I was amazed at the hills I managed without rest stops which I put down to the new gearing not any personal achievement. I even diverted through La Suisse Normandie (rather than taking the straight & flat Voie Vert). Later I ended up starting into the Ardennes (though found a river to follow out once I realised where I'd got into).

And it's really quiet, quite a lot quieter than the danglies configuration.

But touring I guess I don't need the higher end. Brilliant things those Rohloffs.

Ian

[Grldtnr]

Ok , your 'fleshing' out your capabilities, and what you have, depending on your current 3 wheeler, could you put a wheelie on a rack,
It's very true just being a trike is an anti theft device,I've tried riding g an upwrong trike , but got seduced by my recumbent instead it's an Azub, and quite robustly built. Mainly used for cycle camping, as it gives me somewhere to sit of an evening !
Strapping a wheelie to a trike carrier first depend on how or if it folds.b5hen if you can actually strap it on.
Pricing is of course another factor, the cheaper Cargo trikes are available for around £800, or less, but then these are far eastern manufacture, in my opinion you are best going with a European built cargo trike.

I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve ([XAP]Bob being one of the very experienced recumbent trike riders on the forum - gave me loads of advice when I was choosing my configuration several years back).

@[XAP]Bob still using/developing your velomobile?

Ian

Yep

Its current configuration is a 28 speed (2 speed Schlumpf HSD (38/95) to a Rolhoff) drive which gives me 17” to 224” gearing.
It doesn’t feel like it rewards effort put in uphill , but I’m pushing my average speed over the local 13-14 mile loop of over 16mph (still really unfit and fat), including round the local reservoir at 18+, and Mallory park racetrack was faster still.
Recently added an anti fog insert to the visor, and that’s working well.
Keeping out of the weather really doesn’t get boring.

Addressable RGB LEDs on the front of the wing mirrors and in two stripes down the rear give me running lights (blinking), as well as indicators and solid rear as well as brake lights. Also a vertical chasing pair of orange LEDs to act as sort of virtual pedal reflectors.
For the reasons discussed above I don’t go out in the dark, so it’s all RVLR compliant (and probably sufficient, except that I have massive areas of red reflector rather than a kite marked one, and obviously pedals are reflectorless.

Going out at lunch breaks the working day nicely - and hopefully I can shed another 15kg (already ten down) to get back to a more appropriate height

As for the chair - I have considered strapping it to the back of the trike, I just haven’t thought about it for long enough when I’ve had both with me…
A motorised attachment would probably see use in a few places, but the gap between “need the help” and “it’s too steep, there’s no weight on the front wheel” is relatively narrow. One alternative is to get an e scooter and set it up as a pusher on the camber tube. That way at least the weight helps the traction, but control is a potential challenge.
I’ll keep playing with ideas for a few years probably - I like the engineering challenge.

It’s taken me a while to learn how to ride the upwrong trike, whilst they are a different beast the controls feel familiar, and it’s hard to forget how to ride a bike (even if I can’t do it, I can still remember how it’s meant to work).

Interesting that given your disability, that you found it 'interesting' to ride an Upwrong trike, having balance issues i'd thought it easier, but its perhaps a memory thing, if it looks like a bike, feels like a bike,BUT it isnt a bike.

I have yet to attain this higher state of existence,of being a wobbly biker/ triker

[[XAP]Bob]

It's a memory thing. It's really hard to "steer" against the camber, despite that being perfectly natural on a bent...

[Grldtnr]

Trikes & camber, it's a physics thing, you have to learn to counter steer, I.E.. steer opposite left to go right and vicer versa, but not too much or you will go left or right , straight into the ditch or that enormous bramble bush, it's a fine art!
Imagine doing that at speed! I know a tandem couple that had a Blue Riband 'barrow' which was/ is a venerable old machine, always marveled at how the crew kept it on the road, if strictly the right side,,being a trike it made its own mind up, what with hiking it out and counter steering......
Trikes, you can never master them

[[XAP]Bob]

I'm sure some would disagree... I'm quite comfy on 'bent trikes

The upright is never going to be a speed machine, I averaged a little over 6 miles an hour on my "long" ride along the sea front... Almost all of that was away from motorised traffic, and I only had to hit the brakes to avoid cycling off over the rocks once
But it was fun, and it does present an opportunity for short journeys.

[Grldtnr]

babboe_big_VLT2020_947c.jpg
This is what I had in mind, possibilities for lugging are endless, Babbaoe are a primum Dutch bike, so are a bit expensive, some are electric

Actually I wouldn't mind having one myself, for the occasional HWRC tip run, but they are few and far between, a fantastic fantasy bike for cycle camping, imagine what you could take , but in reality you wouldn't.
If I had a 'trade' certainly use one for that,provided enough business available.

[Bmblbzzz]

My kickbikes have actually logged more miles over the last few years than all the rest of my bikes put together, though.

Sorry to go off track somewhat, but could you explain more? I know what it is: a large scooter with bike-sized wheels and bike-type brakes – and it looks great fun for, well, having fun on, but I'm surprised it has become your "main" bike. Mind you, I feel a similar comprehension puzzle about Elliptigoes (also known as stepper-bikes) – looks like fun and a great form of exercise, and I have no doubt there's a race series somewhere, but when people use them for tours or long audaxes, it just strikes me as the wrong tool for the job. Of course, sometimes it's good to push something seemingly inappropriate just because. Anyways, curious as to what makes kickbikes not just attractive but a big attraction.