Tower Block Disaster - Grenfell

[Jdsk]

Final report:
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk

Seven years since the deaths. Two more years before any prosecution. Far too slow.

Jonathan

[axel_knutt]

When the police start their investigation they need to announce that it'll include the people responsible for bringing all the rest of the housing stock up to scratch as well.

There was a case on the news a few days ago in which the residents of a high rise hadn't even been told whether their property was one of those in need of modification or not, seven years and they still haven't found out which properties need the remedial work. Other properties have been modified, but are uninsurable and unsaleable because the insurance companies aren't satisfied that the work's good enough.

[Pendodave]

I suspect that we will be seeing some evidence of a two tier justice system here...
As ever, and not in the way it was described a couple of weeks ago

[Bonefishblues]

I suspect that we will be seeing some evidence of a two tier justice system here...
As ever, and not in the way it was described a couple of weeks ago

What do you mean in this context please?

[Jdsk]

I suspect that we will be seeing some evidence of a two tier justice system here...
As ever, and not in the way it was described a couple of weeks ago

Would that be the inadequate prosecution of corporate criminality compared to individual?

Jonathan

[853]

Final report:
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk

Seven years since the deaths. Two more years before any prosecution. Far too slow.

Thanks for that. I've only had a very quick look at the documents, but after less than 5 minutes I found this which gets straight to the root of it

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk ... RKED_0.pdf

[Psamathe]

One aspect that worries me about subsequent prosecutions is "Corporate Responsibility/Liability". I'm generally disappointed by the concept of "Corporate" taking the blame as decisions were made by people who should take responsibility and liability and punishment. Blaming the "Corporate" seems to allow those really guilty for decisions or actions (or lack of) to blame some abstract body and avoid responsibility.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Final report:
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk

Seven years since the deaths. Two more years before any prosecution. Far too slow.

Thanks for that. I've only had a very quick look at the documents, but after less than 5 minutes I found this which gets straight to the root of it


Grenfell 2012-17.png


https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk ... RKED_0.pdf

But do you think that any politician will suffer any consequences for their inaction? I doubt they will but any risk of legal action will see the taxpayer spending large sums of their legal defence.

Ian

[853]

But do you think that any politician will suffer any consequences for their inaction? I doubt they will but any risk of legal action will see the taxpayer spending large sums of their legal defence.

Depressingly, I think many of the incompetents behind this will not face prosecution and it will be a case of "lessons have been learned" again

But even if you only flick through the reports you will spot a recurring theme

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk ... RKED_0.pdf

[853]

And the next part ...

https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk ... RKED_0.pdf

[Jdsk]

Final report:
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk

Seven years since the deaths. Two more years before any prosecution. Far too slow.

CPS today:
“We have been working closely with the Metropolitan Police Service throughout their investigation and will therefore be in a strong position to review the completed evidential file, which they anticipate will be passed to us in 2026.
“Our team of specialist prosecutors will then carefully review the file but do not expect to be in a position to make any charging decisions until the end of 2026.
“Due to the sheer volume of evidence and complexity of the investigation, we will need to take the necessary time to thoroughly evaluate the evidence before providing final charging decisions.”
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/cps-statement-grenfell

Jonathan

[briansnail]

We all feel for the poor families.It always comes down to money in the end.Lack off.

[Vorpal]

I understand many of the reasons that the inquiry has taken so long. There are many, many details that require thorough review, often by experts in several fields.

But I do not understand the lack of action.

How many times will this have to happen before safety in construction is assured and homes are made safe?

[Psamathe]

...
But I do not understand the lack of action.

How many times will this have to happen before safety in construction is assured and homes are made safe?

Valid question but there is also the broader question as to why our society seems to keep allowing major failures to society. Why have we allowed our rivers to be turned into open sewers, why have the Post Office felt enabled to commit the worst miscarriage of justice, etc. And so many answers come down to "profit". I wonder if all these failings are part of the Capitalist System we seem to have such blind belief in.

And it's still happening. Just look at Climate Change. Labours plans to build new houses and no mention of building energy efficient homes but rather allow developers to build for maximum profit. In 25 years when we have the Climate Change Inquiry investigating how we destroyed our environment with the predictable concequences I can see not dissimilar failings in the final report eg politicians ignored warnings, companies lied and deceived, profit dictated policy, ...

Ian

[Cugel]

I understand many of the reasons that the inquiry has taken so long. There are many, many details that require thorough review, often by experts in several fields.

But I do not understand the lack of action.

How many times will this have to happen before safety in construction is assured and homes are made safe?

As Psamathe mentions, such degradations and their often disastrous consequences will continue as long as profit-making of the kind practiced by capitalism is the dominant behaviour supported by more or less every national institution going, in most nations across the planet now, even if the various governmental agents and kinds maintaining capitalism's dominance and freedom to do as it wishes take different forms in different countries.

The Big Questions are:

* What better motives than profit-making could be substituted that would perform the opposite of degradation and disaster (the supposed but false claim of capitalism and its claim to provide "progress");

* How could any such motives be brought to the fore whilst those of capitalism are banished to history with other dangerous and defunct human practices, from The Divine Right of Kings to the unfettered power of a national religion (effectively the same thing in Blightedland, of course, where the remnants still exist and operate albeit now as another kind of capitalist ... but still seeking only that one thing).

Personally I'm a Jeremiah and see no prospect at all of a replacement of utterly destructive capitalism with better socio-economic motives and modes. The momentum (or is it inertia) of the capitalist hegemony is immense; and defended with the same vicious dedication as is their profit making.

Many think that a bit of tinkering with the laws that enable, support and promote capitalism can somehow eliminate its many vast and ongoing damages. The current (and previous) Labour government is a prime example of how the reach and control of capitalism is far too strong for any government to stop it and its ways.

I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of my grandchildren. But wishful thunks only lead to the thunk of our hopes falling hard off the cliff and down to a common fate unlikely to please any of us, even the rabid profiteers.