BEVs

[Jdsk]

Servicing costs on an EV are also lower than for an ICEv, because you only need to check the brake system and wipers, then change the cabin air filter.

Yes servicing costs are lower, although the rest of the car is pretty much the same except for replacement of engine with EM and battery. Suspension and related bushings and joints, wheel bearings, the mechanical braking system as you mention, steering, driveshafts, air conditioning system and so on. Brake fluid requires replacing every 3 years, many traction batteries have glycol-based liquid cooling systems and gearboxes also often have recommended service intervals.

An ev doesn't go through brake pads like an icev -- I've stated up thread about my brother needing to replace his rear calipers the first time he needed pads cos of lack of use over 10 years. As for brake fluid changing every 3 years

"... pretty much the same... "

The transition from typical current ICEVs to typical current BEVs includes the disappearance of the alternator, the starter motor, the mechanical clutch and a shifting gearbox. That's a lot of components that don't need to be serviced or replaced.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

...
To *average* 30kWh/day would therefore need roughly a 10kWp array - April to September (6 months)...
My parents array is 5.5kWp IIRC, and is pretty nicely located on the south coast - and 30kWh is a noteworthy day.

Yes, that sounds about right. The south coast or near to is definitely the place for solar PV.

You're suggesting losses of 30% from panels to car battery, and that's not sane. There is currently no reason, other than being completely off grid, that you'd need to do what you're suggesting. You export the solar during the day, and then buy in energy at night - both increasing supply when the grid is loaded, and increasing demand when the grid is relatively idle.

I agree it's a heck of a loss, some do this (perhaps it's cheaper?) although I believe the more efficient DC-DC solar to car links are growing in popularity. This may save a fair chunk of money compared with exporting to the Grid then purchasing cheap rate energy. One issue could be if the sun was darting in and out from behind thicker clouds, the efficiency may fall slightly as the car's BMS adjusted itself.

[Biospace]

What Car? reliability survey of over 21,732 motorists, published July 2024.

The 5 most common car fault areas are listed below, 4 out of 5 are electronic or electrical problems.

• 24.5% Non-engine electrics

• 19.8% Infotainment and sat-nav

• 13.4% Battery

• 13.2% Bodywork

• 12.9% Engine electrics

They also list their findings for the most reliable electric cars,

[[XAP]Bob]

The south coast or near to is definitely the place for solar PV.

Well, I get 16kWh on a good day from a 2.4kWp array in the midlands... Whilst in some ways further south is better, the absolutely best place is "where you can" which probably means "where you live".
And I only have a small roof which faces south, though I could add an east facing array, but not west.
An east array would basically all be exported (since it would just mean the battery was full sooner in the morning), but a west array would probably benefit me more, by reducing any evening usage.

You're suggesting losses of 30% from panels to car battery, and that's not sane. There is currently no reason, other than being completely off grid, that you'd need to do what you're suggesting. You export the solar during the day, and then buy in energy at night - both increasing supply when the grid is loaded, and increasing demand when the grid is relatively idle.

I agree it's a heck of a loss, some do this (perhaps it's cheaper?) although I believe the more efficient DC-DC solar to car links are growing in popularity. This may save a fair chunk of money compared with exporting to the Grid then purchasing cheap rate energy. One issue could be if the sun was darting in and out from behind thicker clouds, the efficiency may fall slightly as the car's BMS adjusted itself.

I don't know of anyone who charges their car from a home battery.
There are a couple of reasons for this:
- It's basically always cheaper to use overnight electrons (and to sell daytime ones).
- EV batteries are significantly larger than home batteries.
I can't imagine it making sense unless you were aiming to be completely off grid.

The Zappi charger you linked to is also an AC charger, not a DC charger - so you don't get the DC-DC benefit you're thinking about, that does happen with some hybrid home battery systems, but not as far as I am aware with any home EV charger.
The only ones that might would be Chademo chargers (like the Indra), and even then you've got to step the DC up/down to the correct voltage and that has it's own efficiency challenges.

[Jdsk]

The south coast or near to is definitely the place for solar PV.

Well, I get 16kWh on a good day from a 2.4kWp array in the midlands... Whilst in some ways further south is better, the absolutely best place is "where you can" which probably means "where you live".
...

Well said. The benefits are available further north. And the appropriate comparator for many of us is not having solar panels, not what's achievable if you live somewhere else.

Jonathan

[PDQ Mobile]

To be clear.
It's a nearly thousand miles ONE way!
...
Your figures are adrift.

And *that*s why I break down the figures... if I'd not shown my working it wouldn't have been clear

Yes you should revise them; 870 kwh per annum is under 2.4 kwh a day.

[PDQ Mobile]

...
There might be an argument - and I'm not saying it makes sense for you, but hear me out - for having a car better suited to your day to day driving, and renting something for the one journey a year. Zero litres is, after all, smaller than 1.7
...

Thank for including this.

Not owning the vehicle that is used for all purposes is very sensible. That might be none rather than one, one rather than two...

And of course many of us already do this with occasional use of vans.

Jonathan

Have you costed hiring a 'van for 8 weeks of international hire?
It does not favourably compare at all.
And I don't like living in vans much.

[Jdsk]

...
There might be an argument - and I'm not saying it makes sense for you, but hear me out - for having a car better suited to your day to day driving, and renting something for the one journey a year. Zero litres is, after all, smaller than 1.7
...

Thank for including this.

Not owning the vehicle that is used for all purposes is very sensible. That might be none rather than one, one rather than two...

And of course many of us already do this with occasional use of vans.

Have you costed hiring a 'van for 8 weeks of international hire?
It does not favourably compare at all.
...

I'd missed that requirement for 8 weeks of use. Has it been mentioned before?

I hire vans to move furniture etc in the UK. And appropriate vehicles to move bikes at the beginning and end of tours, as it's often the best solution for us. I'm currently looking at hiring a van to take all of the extended family's bikes to a holiday on the Baltic. And when I finally get a BEV I don't expect it to have the lugging space of many of our previous CLOs, so that will mean more hiring.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

Well, I get 16kWh on a good day from a 2.4kWp array in the midlands...
And I only have a small roof which faces south, though I could add an east facing array, but not west.
An east array would basically all be exported (since it would just mean the battery was full sooner in the morning), but a west array would probably benefit me more, by reducing any evening usage.

I think we were talking about monthly averages, but 16kWh from 2.4kWp is good. Is 9kWh a summer average and do you dump excess into heating water?

East-facing arrays can be more efficient than West on account of clearer Spring and summer morning skies, but I'm not sure this is the case country-wide.

I don't know of anyone who charges their car from a home battery.
There are a couple of reasons for this:
- It's basically always cheaper to use overnight electrons (and to sell daytime ones).
- EV batteries are significantly larger than home batteries.
I can't imagine it making sense unless you were aiming to be completely off grid.

I do, he uses it only for when there's no wind or sun, but he generates loads of energy and has 30kWh of storage, on a tariff which pays generously for half of what is produced I think, irrespective of exported volumes. He's moving to be off-grid as soon as swmbo allows it, so may be simply practicing.

The Zappi charger you linked to is also an AC charger...

So are people using them more for the novelty of using your own solar or wind energy, I wonder, rather than exporting then buying cheap rate?

[sjs]

What Car? reliability survey of over 21,732 motorists, published July 2024.

The 5 most common car fault areas are listed below, 4 out of 5 are electronic or electrical problems.

• 24.5% Non-engine electrics

• 19.8% Infotainment and sat-nav

• 13.4% Battery

• 13.2% Bodywork

• 12.9% Engine electrics

They also list their findings for the most reliable electric cars,


Screenshot 2024-09-09 at 17.06.34.png

Is it clear what the percentages mean? If it's probability per year of nothing going wrong, then we were very unlucky with our Tesla.

[Jdsk]

What Car? reliability survey of over 21,732 motorists, published July 2024.

The 5 most common car fault areas are listed below, 4 out of 5 are electronic or electrical problems.

• 24.5% Non-engine electrics

• 19.8% Infotainment and sat-nav

• 13.4% Battery

• 13.2% Bodywork

• 12.9% Engine electrics

...

Is it clear what the percentages mean? If it's probability per year of nothing going wrong, then we were very unlucky with our Tesla.

I think that it's probably the fraction of all reported faults that are in that category:
https://www.whatcar.com/news/what-goes- ... led/n19298

Jonathan

[Biospace]

Well said. The benefits are available further north. And the appropriate comparator for many of us is not having solar panels, not what's achievable if you live somewhere else.

What surprised many when they started trickling onto significant numbers of properties 20 or so years ago was just how much it isn't a North-South divide in Britain, and how good the result in Britain were altogether, compared with what had been anticipated. Coastal areas in particular give very good results and the long summer days of more Northern latitudes can contribute to excellent results. Coastal parts of Fife give remarkably good results.

I started using solar PV around 25 years ago to power the house, perhaps one of its more valuable lessons is to make you aware of your energy use. Going off-grid is an education in itself, the moment we have unlimited access to energy at nothing more than the flick of a switch, the tendency is to increase consumption to a startling degree.

[PDQ Mobile]

Well said. The benefits are available further north. And the appropriate comparator for many of us is not having solar panels, not what's achievable if you live somewhere else.

What surprised many when they started trickling onto significant numbers of properties 20 or so years ago was just how much it isn't a North-South divide in Britain, and how good the result in Britain were altogether, compared with what had been anticipated. Coastal areas in particular give very good results and the long summer days of more Northern latitudes can contribute to excellent results. Coastal parts of Fife give remarkably good results.

I started using solar PV around 25 years ago to power the house, perhaps one of its more valuable lessons is to make you aware of your energy use. Going off-grid is an education in itself, the moment we have unlimited access to energy at nothing more than the flick of a switch, the tendency is to increase consumption to a startling degree.

Are you then totally "off grid" and pay no standing charges?

Speaking for myself I went down the route of a low consumption house many decades ago, partly because of unreliable supply but also a "small is beautiful" philosophy.

[[XAP]Bob]

Well, I get 16kWh on a good day from a 2.4kWp array in the midlands...
And I only have a small roof which faces south, though I could add an east facing array, but not west.
An east array would basically all be exported (since it would just mean the battery was full sooner in the morning), but a west array would probably benefit me more, by reducing any evening usage.

I think we were talking about monthly averages, but 16kWh from 2.4kWp is good. Is 9kWh a summer average and do you dump excess into heating water?

I listed monthly averages above - 16kWh is a good day, rather than a regular occurrence (and certainly not frequent this year!)
I don't have a water tank, but did crudely dump some into my car before the export rates became reasonable. Now I have no reason to maximise my self consumption, so I'm happy to export during the day, which is typically when the grid is least clean, and re-import overnight, when the grid is much cleaner (yesterday wasn't a good solar day, it was OK, but not good):

The "unboring" section of a day's usage

Purple line is Grid usage - with positive numbers being export, and negative numbers being import. I export at the end of the evening, and then wait until the wee hours to fill the battery. You can also see a dishwasher cycle in there.

East-facing arrays can be more efficient than West on account of clearer Spring and summer morning skies, but I'm not sure this is the case country-wide.

They might be more efficient, but I'd give up some total generation to have the generation at a time which was more beneficial. It's a moot point, I can't install an east array anyway, and west would be limited.

I do, he uses it only for when there's no wind or sun, but he generates loads of energy and has 30kWh of storage, on a tariff which pays generously for half of what is produced I think, irrespective of exported volumes. He's moving to be off-grid as soon as swmbo allows it, so may be simply practicing.

Ok, so an early FIT (because later tariffs are less beneficial than being paid for export). Also a massive system, which - as you point out is targetting off grid (which is the use case I can see).

So are people using them more for the novelty of using your own solar or wind energy, I wonder, rather than exporting then buying cheap rate?

A lot of them (and the hot water diverters) were sold before export was reasonably valued.
If you're getting paid a deemed rate of ~3p/kWh, then you can use it and still get paid for it... I export as much as I generate - and I get paid 15p for export, so I'm getting many times more than I would have if I had had a FIT. My parents have come off their FIT recently, and it's significantly better for them to just join in with the market rather than having the FIT.
Some friends have an early FIT, so they get paid a fortune for what they generate, and they won't have their meter changed because it runs backwards... No incentive for them to have a smart meter, or battery storage.

[PDQ Mobile]

Some friends have an early FIT, so they get paid a fortune for what they generate, and they won't have their meter changed because it runs backwards... No incentive for them to have a smart meter, or battery storage.

Just so.
They are being heavily subsidised by the truly "green" low user.
IMV unfair.