Helmet worked for me

[pjclinch]

Read my previous post, I think it echoes what you both say to a degree. I don't swallow the hyperbole, never have, but I also know when it's obvious something has helped or hindered me.

What tends to be missing from these sorts of anecdote is the lack of parallel reasoning in other similar situations.

I know from banging my head that doing so on rocky roofs of caves in my caving helmet hurts a lot less than banging my head on e.g. half-down garage doors and kitchen cupboards when I'm not wearing my caving helmet... but I don't wear a caving helmet any time I go to a garage or a kitchen.
I know from dropping things on my toes barefoot or in sandals that it hurts a lot more than dropping stuff on my toes in my caving wellies or winter climbing boots, but I don't walk around most of the time in places I might drop something wearing my caving wellies or winter climbing boots.

So if you're riding in a place and a manner where head-butting a tree isn't too far off the probable events track it makes very good sense to wear one, but if it's a case of "I hit my head once and it hurt less with a helmet" isn't, of itself, much more of a reason to ride in a helmet than wearing safety boots around your house because you dropped a pan on your foot once or to rope up for stairs because you've fallen down them the odd time (vastly more people die from falls on stairs than in bike crashes, > 700/year compared to ~ 110, and yes, lots more people use stairs than ride bikes but on the other hand they don't generally use stairs for tens of minutes or hours at a time).

Speeding through close set trees, pushing your limits, strikes me as a pretty good place to wear a helmet. Because you hit your head once doing that isn't actually a slam-dunk logical reason to wear one to ride in a very different context. Not that I want to put anyone off wearing one if they want, but I would like more people to see it's more rationalisation than "common sense".

Pete.

[Cugel]

Read my previous post, I think it echoes what you both say to a degree. I don't swallow the hyperbole, never have, but I also know when it's obvious something has helped or hindered me.

What tends to be missing from these sorts of anecdote is the lack of parallel reasoning in other similar situations.

I know from banging my head that doing so on rocky roofs of caves in my caving helmet hurts a lot less than banging my head on e.g. half-down garage doors and kitchen cupboards when I'm not wearing my caving helmet... but I don't wear a caving helmet any time I go to a garage or a kitchen.
I know from dropping things on my toes barefoot or in sandals that it hurts a lot more than dropping stuff on my toes in my caving wellies or winter climbing boots, but I don't walk around most of the time in places I might drop something wearing my caving wellies or winter climbing boots.

So if you're riding in a place and a manner where head-butting a tree isn't too far off the probable events track it makes very good sense to wear one, but if it's a case of "I hit my head once and it hurt less with a helmet" isn't, of itself, much more of a reason to ride in a helmet than wearing safety boots around your house because you dropped a pan on your foot once or to rope up for stairs because you've fallen down them the odd time (vastly more people die from falls on stairs than in bike crashes, > 700/year compared to ~ 110, and yes, lots more people use stairs than ride bikes but on the other hand they don't generally use stairs for tens of minutes or hours at a time).

Speeding through close set trees, pushing your limits, strikes me as a pretty good place to wear a helmet. Because you hit your head once doing that isn't actually a slam-dunk logical reason to wear one to ride in a very different context. Not that I want to put anyone off wearing one if they want, but I would like more people to see it's more rationalisation than "common sense".

Pete.

Quite so - common sense is a vastly over-rated facility not least because its rarely common and rarely sense. Its more usually an installed prejudice picked up from the surrounding culture (including the commercial culture of advertising, for us moderns) or a a wishful thunk that, "What I spent my money on, especially if it was a lot, is worth it".

But, as mentioned endlessly, even a polystyrene hat can sometimes reduce a headache. The only indication worth noting, post crash, is: did the polystyrene get completely crushed flat? A crack to the flimsy plastic skin, a little dent or a scrape, a big split but no squashed parts .... indicate only a tiny amount of force being absorbed. To offer protection, that polystyrene has to absorb energy by crushing from expanded to completely flattened, which by design absorbs 7Nm at best (probably less). This is rarely the case; but a crack or split looks so much more dramatic. "Saved my life, that crack!" No, it didnae.

[[XAP]Bob]

The only indication worth noting, post crash, is: did the polystyrene get completely crushed flat? A crack to the flimsy plastic skin, a little dent or a scrape, a big split but no squashed parts .... indicate only a tiny amount of force being absorbed. To offer protection, that polystyrene has to absorb energy by crushing from expanded to completely flattened, which by design absorbs 7Nm at best (probably less). This is rarely the case; but a crack or split looks so much more dramatic. "Saved my life, that crack!" No, it didnae.

To be fair it doesn't need to be completely flat, but it does need to have suffered plastic deformation in a crush.
Brittle fracture is not an energy absorbing failure, though usually the plastic shell will retain the pieces to allow them to be crushed (so your hat can both suffer a brittle failure *and* do its job in an energy absorbing crush.

[Steady rider]

No helmet -
How often will you crash - x
How often will you hit your head - y
How severe will be the impacts - z
How much rotation to the brain - w
Totals x+y+z+w

Helmeted
How often will you crash - a
How often will you hit your head / helmet - b
How severe will be the impacts - c
Will helmet use increase neck problems - d
How much rotation to the brain - e
assuming extra impacts, what long term consequences -f
Totals a+b+c+d+e

Answers to the two groups may help people assess helmets better.

[maanderx]

What tends to be missing from these sorts of anecdote is the lack of parallel reasoning in other similar situations.

When people on bikes have accidents and they say that the helmet saved their life; surely they
would have had to have had an accident of the same or similar magnitude without a helmet to
make a truthful and accurate comparison.

[drossall]

Yes precisely. Part of the problem is that, if people wearing helmets have accidents and are unhurt, they credit the helmet. If they are hurt, they say that the helmet made it less serious.

Now those things could be true, but they are not evidence, because there is no situation that they would accept as evidence of the opposite.

And, of course, in club cycling in particular, people are beginning to forget that it is possible to ride without one, in part because everyone wears what the pros do. Once the alternative possibility is forgotten, it becomes not a sensible option - rather as, soon, a lot of people will forget that riding a non-e-bicycle is even an option, whatever the merits of electric assistance. Reasons why the other option might or might not be a good idea cease to be a serious part of the discussion.

[ymfb]

As the OP, I clarify and confirm the following as I’ve read some ridiculous claims, comments and assertions on this thread

I was riding very slow when I came off
I wasn’t on the drops
My helmeted head hit the road and sustained a crushed shell

It wasn’t an expensive helmet, it was replaced with a mid range MIPS type.

My riding style is not changed because I wear a helmet.

I don’t wear a helmet because others do, but as a piece of PPE exactly the same as other items worn at work.

As I’m sure I’ve stated before, if you choose not to wear a helmet, crack on, but don’t assume those of who do are less informed or ignorant.

The title of this thread is accurate and correct.

Ride safe