Who is tougher, the person who sits climbing all hills or the person who stands?

[pjclinch]

My general hack is a Moulton SST 11, as delivered it was 27-109 gear inches, and that 's low enough for the great majority of use, particularly if I'm sticking to tarmac (I don't do loaded touring on it).
I've just geared it down anyway to 23-93 not because I was suffering in first but because I really wasn't getting any use out of 11, and I'd prefer to have something for very steep ramps or a bit of grassy off-road than to have a top gear I used once in a blue moon.

The MTB goes down to about 18" and for your actual mountain biking or loaded off-road touring that gets used. My wife's new dedicated off-road tourer goes down to 16" and for big gravel drags with touring load again that's useful at times. Those bottom gears don't get used on the road though.

Pete.

[peetee]

There is no single answer. It depends on so many factors. Firstly, the physical make-up of the rider; their body proportions, muscle development, cardio-vascular development and even age has a bearing.
The gradient and surface of the road has a bearing. So too does the type of bike and its set-up, eg gearing, saddle position, reach etc.
Finally, mental attitude has its part. Do you know how to climb that hill? Are you afraid it’s going to be tough or will you be overconfident and blow before the top? Will you stand when you should be sitting or sit when you should be standing and how will that affect your ability to do a good time or finish it at all?

[rareposter]

... and in fact the most efficient way!

Anyway, everyone knows that the most efficient way is to buy an e-bike.

My e-cargo bike is hilarious on hills. Everyone looks at this big old beast of a bike and assumes I'll be going really slowly and then I cruise past at 14mph. It'll beat most roadies on most hills, even with a load on. It's an absolute hoot to ride.

[Nearholmer]

There is no single answer. It depends on so many factors

True.

[ElaineB]

I use very low gears and sit and spin up hills, much easier on the muscles. When I had a sports massage once the chap said what great flexible calf muscles I had!
Personally I hate to see cyclists with tight solid calf muscles covered in varicose veins, nothing nice about those!
It’s not about who is tougher but who gets to the top still chatting. I climbed Turners Hill a few years ago while cycling down to Brighton on my heavy touring bike with 2 large panniers. On the way up I was passed (very close) by 5 club riders, as though I was in their way. As it got to the steep part before the top the 3 females were in the lay-by hanging over their handlebars huffing and puffing, red faced and swigging out of their bidons. I carried on past spinning my small gears without a word. The 2 racing chaps the females were with, were waiting at the top eagerly watching for them. Imagine their surprise when a 65 yr old lady appeared on her laden tourer, not even out of breath! Actions speak louder than words and I doubt those poor 3 females ever lived that one down. I laughed once I had passed the 2 chaps at the top because their faces were horrified seeing me sailing effortlessly up and over Turners Hill!

[Carlton green]

The tale above is a reminder that (mostly) it ain’t what you’ve got that matters it’s what you do with it (that matters) .

I’ve always thought it daft to stand on the pedals, to my mind it just puts unnecessary - and potentially damaging - loads on muscles on joints. YMMV applies.

[biker38109]

Regardless of how useless people say it is my 14 I am finding very useful. If you say it is because I am unfit then fine.

An example on a hill with rated gradient, yesterday, 11% but must have gone on maybe 2 miles; from the bottom on the edge of a small village to the top at the crest of some moorland.

I did ride it the other day in 18 before the new cassette and made it to the top. I did it yesterday in 14 and still was not easy. It actually didn't feel any easier this last time but I think that is more because I was riding for 3+ hours already vs relatively fresh the time before.

So something to be said also for lower gears when running near empty. Anyway no point trying to convince anyone else they will say it is pointless. I find it very handy.

Btw if that one is rated 11% I can't even imagine what riding a 37-40% one would be like which I read are the grades of some of the most extreme climbs I have been reading about. It must feel like riding nearly vertically. I did read a comment on a blog that it can feel like you will fall over backwards. I have gotten that feeling on another which I class the steepest hill I have found in my area though no idea how steep in % that would be.

Having ridden on some more off roads lately I see how little gears can help you as soon as you get to large rubbled farm tracks! The slightest miss-turn and you will shoot out one way or the other and the foot goes down!

[Carlton green]

Regardless of how useless people say it is my 14 I am finding very useful. If you say it is because I am unfit then fine.

I’m puzzled why anyone would say it was useless, but of course they might have no use for a similar arrangement. It’s better not to take comments too much to heart, water off a ducks back, etc., and mostly folk here are good natured. What’s important is what you’ve found useful to you, you’re the one on your bike so what you have needs to be useful to you and not necessarily anyone else.

If you’re unfit then so what? Having arrangements that allow you to meet your aims is all that matters.

[Nearholmer]

For reasons that I’m at a loss to fully explain, I find it is sometimes easier to negotiate really rubbly or pitted ground standing up; I think it has something to do with being able to control weight distribution, because when seated the front wheel is lower-weighted, and can get pinged to one side more easily. Perversely though, subtly different seriously bumpy ground requires the opposite: completely unweight the front, and let the front wheel find its own way through, any attempt to guide it resulting in a fight that you lose!

It’s the only ground where I find wide, flat bars give a serious advantage; there sometimes isn’t enough leverage to maintain required direction with even fairly wide drop bars.

[roubaixtuesday]

Regardless of how useless people say it is my 14 I am finding very useful. If you say it is because I am unfit then fine.

An example on a hill with rated gradient, yesterday, 11% but must have gone on maybe 2 miles; from the bottom on the edge of a small village to the top at the crest of some moorland.

I did ride it the other day in 18 before the new cassette and made it to the top. I did it yesterday in 14 and still was not easy. It actually didn't feel any easier this last time but I think that is more because I was riding for 3+ hours already vs relatively fresh the time before.

So something to be said also for lower gears when running near empty. Anyway no point trying to convince anyone else they will say it is pointless. I find it very handy.

Btw if that one is rated 11% I can't even imagine what riding a 37-40% one would be like which I read are the grades of some of the most extreme climbs I have been reading about. It must feel like riding nearly vertically. I did read a comment on a blog that it can feel like you will fall over backwards. I have gotten that feeling on another which I class the steepest hill I have found in my area though no idea how steep in % that would be.

Having ridden on some more off roads lately I see how little gears can help you as soon as you get to large rubbled farm tracks! The slightest miss-turn and you will shoot out one way or the other and the foot goes down!

I think much of the criticism you perceive isn't intended as such.

For many people, a 14" gear is simply too low to sustain balance. If you enjoy it, fine.

As far as hills go, there aren't any sustained hills at 37-40%. There might be a very short section.

Signing of hills is incredibly inconsistent, but most often the sign is for the steepest section, not the average.

Hardknott is renowned as one of the steepest in the UK and signed at 33%, but only hits that in very small parts. Here's the gradient breakdown

https://veloviewer.com/segments/6677392

I've done that climb, standing on the steep sections, in my 50s on a 32" gear. And I weigh 85kg. I'd rather do that than attempt it on a 14" gear. But each to their own. I'm definitely in no way "tough".

[biker38109]

...

Interesting, thanks.

Yes I had read about that one as the most well known but I read about a new title holder, Afon Ddu.

Of course that is the extreme exception but I did build my bike with that kind of stuff in mind.

[Bmblbzzz]

It’s not about who is tougher but who gets to the top still chatting.

It's about whatever you want it to be about. You enjoyed twiddling to the top without losing breath, they enjoyed busting their lungs.

[biker38109]

I've done that climb, standing on the steep sections, in my 50s on a 32" gear. And I weigh 85kg. I'd rather do that than attempt it on a 14" gear. But each to their own. I'm definitely in no way "tough".

I think that might be the crux of the matter, that those here who talk about doing the hills in higher gearing are all taking for granted standing in the saddle for some or large parts of it whereas my gearing is based on 100% seated.

I think the only time I get out is moving my bum to the side for a bit of a 'breather' for a few seconds or on a steep decline. Oh or those rare times where I lose control on the rubble.

[pjclinch]

I've done that climb, standing on the steep sections, in my 50s on a 32" gear. And I weigh 85kg. I'd rather do that than attempt it on a 14" gear. But each to their own. I'm definitely in no way "tough".

I think that might be the crux of the matter, that those here who talk about doing the hills in higher gearing are all taking for granted standing in the saddle for some or large parts of it whereas my gearing is based on 100% seated.

I think the only time I get out is moving my bum to the side for a bit of a 'breather' for a few seconds or on a steep decline. Oh or those rare times where I lose control on the rubble.

I wonder if we're at cross purposes with relative terms like higher and lower gearing.
I suspect most riders stand up to do hills in higher gearing for the simple reason it becomes the only way to turn the pedals once the gearing is sufficiently high.

One can thug it sat down on a recumbent by virtue of pushing back against the seat but if one is pushing down against an increasingly high gear then at some point you push yourself out of the seat whether you want to stay sat down or not.

Pete.

[biker38109]

Oof I just came back from riding.

I had planned on tackling a renowned hill nearby but I called it off before even reaching the foot of it! I was already 1 and 1/2 hours riding and wasn't even there yet and came upon a monstrous (to me) 25%er out of nowhere on the foothills to the main mountains. That was pure misery riding up it. My lungs were white hot and felt like razor blades in the windpipe and could taste blood in the back of the throat.

I made it to the top but that was not fun and I would have been another hour or so before even reaching the foot of the intended destination. I decided to turn back and ride home. My throat still hurts now from that. Is it shameful to have given up?

I suddenly reevaluated my aspirations to find the steepest hills.

I might still be interested but I would allow myself breaks. Trying to 'fight through it' is just horrible and you don't get any prizes for the amount of pain you go through. Felt like I was suffocating trying to get breath at the steepest points. Am I weak as I read here an older gentleman than me saying he glided up hard knot pass, which is in the high 30s compared to this 'piddling' 25% I was mauled by today, with ease on 20 something gearing inches? Even my 14 granny could not save me in this case!