Hope in Israel/Palestine

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Jon in Sweden
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by Jon in Sweden »

simonineaston wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 7:09pm
The issue I take is that the artificial creation of Israel after WW2 (which was obviously the culmination of a longer process) was at the expense of the people that already lived there
Got to be said, we, as in the UK, have a fair bit of previous on that one…
I do not disagree. But that happened long before I was born.

We can look back at historical claims, grievances, prejudices and even historial record, but all that really matters is the here and now and how to improve the lives of those living through the current situation. Israel exists and arguing over who created it and why isn't important.

What's important is for them to find a way of living peacefully with their neighbours. I once heard an expression which was this:

"If one day you meet an a$$hole then you've met an a$$hole. If every day all you meet is a$$holes, then it's perhaps you that's the a$$hole"

It's a little vulgar, but it serves my point. Israel is or has been at war with all of it's neighbours. It's conception was a land grab and it has been followed by a series of violent land grabs, occupations and wars. I realise that I'm contradicting my earlier statement about history not being the most important thing, but it serves to inform the current situation.
cycle tramp
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by cycle tramp »

If we take the above assumption that Israel is not seeking peace then the situation that Iran may be close to developing its own nuclear weapons must be a certain concern for them (perhaps more so than same concern that the rest of the world carries, and speaking personally I'm pretty concerned)...
...if you are a complete cynic, like myself, then its almost believable that Israel has now become the west's own weapon to prevent Iran from further developing a nuclear arsenal..
Bloody hands at arms length..
Last edited by cycle tramp on 10 Oct 2024, 8:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unlimited economic growth in a world of finite resources doesn't fit nor does it guarantee happiness.
cycle tramp
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by cycle tramp »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 7:56pm
"If one day you meet an a$$hole then you've met an a$$hole. If every day all you meet is a$$holes, then it's perhaps you that's the a$$hole"
......perhaps...? I think I'm definitely almost.... :-D
Unlimited economic growth in a world of finite resources doesn't fit nor does it guarantee happiness.
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simonineaston
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by simonineaston »

Just been watching Threads round me mate’s house - you know, try to get used to what might happen, see if we can pick up any useful tips… gave up in disgust around 53 minutes in as everybody seems to be dead.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02kgkkg
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by cycle tramp »

simonineaston wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 8:56pm Just been watching Threads round me mate’s house - you know, try to get used to what might happen, see if we can pick up any useful tips… gave up in disgust around 53 minutes in as everybody seems to be dead.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02kgkkg
...Generally speaking after a nuclear event, being dead is possibly going to be the wiser option..

...perhaps the best tip is 'not having a nuclear war' by attempting to support peaceful alternatives to conflict, and reducing emotional anger in the world...

..whilst it's an aim, not overly sure on the methods to which to achieve it...
Unlimited economic growth in a world of finite resources doesn't fit nor does it guarantee happiness.
djnotts
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Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by djnotts »

^ cycle tramp: "Generally speaking after a nuclear event, being dead is possibly going to be the wiser option..

...perhaps the best tip is 'not having a nuclear war' by attempting to support peaceful alternatives to conflict, and reducing emotional anger in the world..."

Unfortunately it is not within my power to follow your entirely sound tip!
mattheus
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Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by mattheus »

cycle tramp wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 3:52pm
mattheus wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 11:09am
cycle tramp wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 10:46am
The thing about history is that it happened in the past, as opposed to more recent events
Surely recent events also happened in the past?!?

But then nothing would surprise me in the post-truth world ...
Really not sure what point you're attempting to make here, or even if you have one. But you're welcome to try again.
Isaiah 6:9–10, my friend ...
mattheus
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by mattheus »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 6:19pm
It's hard not to be cynical, but I just don't believe that there is any desire in the Israeli majority for a lasting peace.
THAT'S your concluding statement?!?

You think the man/woman on the Tel Aviv Omnibus wants to be at war?!?
reohn2
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by reohn2 »

mattheus wrote: 11 Oct 2024, 9:47am
Jon in Sweden wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 6:19pm
It's hard not to be cynical, but I just don't believe that there is any desire in the Israeli majority for a lasting peace.
THAT'S your concluding statement?!?

You think the man/woman on the Tel Aviv Omnibus wants to be at war?!?
It's been reported in the past few days that Netanyahu's popularity in the polls is increasing in light of current events.....

Another point is that the IDF clam to know exactly the whereabouts of all Hamas and Hezbollah leaders and activists,yet haven't an inkling where any one of the Israeli hostages are being held in Gaza and when they do they shoot them dead,that's when they aren't levelling the place with US and Uk armaments,hmmm very strange indeed.....
Last edited by reohn2 on 11 Oct 2024, 4:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Stradageek
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by Stradageek »

mattheus wrote: 11 Oct 2024, 9:47am
Jon in Sweden wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 6:19pm
It's hard not to be cynical, but I just don't believe that there is any desire in the Israeli majority for a lasting peace.
THAT'S your concluding statement?!?

You think the man/woman on the Tel Aviv Omnibus wants to be at war?!?
Maybe not wanting to be at war but quite happy to preside over genocide. If you think I'm being unfair then watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqK3_n6pdDY

Even John Oliver was prepared to disappoint his audience by spending half an hour detailing the realities of the Israeli attitude to the ongoing genocide making his weekly programme unusually thin on jokes :(
mattheus
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Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by mattheus »

yeahbut ...

whatabout ...

yeahbut ..

whatabout ...
Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by Mike Sales »

Israel occupied Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Since then it has invaded five times.
It has invaded Lebanon six times in fifty years.
This is a ruthless summary of the various bouts of violence
What is it they say about repeating the same action and expecting a different result?
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
cycle tramp
Posts: 4359
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by cycle tramp »

mattheus wrote: 11 Oct 2024, 9:22am
cycle tramp wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 3:52pm
mattheus wrote: 10 Oct 2024, 11:09am
Surely recent events also happened in the past?!?

But then nothing would surprise me in the post-truth world ...
Really not sure what point you're attempting to make here, or even if you have one. But you're welcome to try again.
Isaiah 6:9–10, my friend ...
I think there's 3 or 4 different interpretations of those verses..

However my favourite quotes are from the Bhagavad-Gita;
'Lust, anger, greed are the three doors to hell'
'The wise work for the welfare of the world without thought for themselves'
Unlimited economic growth in a world of finite resources doesn't fit nor does it guarantee happiness.
mattheus
Posts: 5704
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by mattheus »

cycle tramp wrote: 11 Oct 2024, 12:53pm However my favourite quotes are from the Bhagavad-Gita;
'Lust, anger, greed are the three doors to hell'
'The wise work for the welfare of the world without thought for themselves'
These guys had a much wiser message https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGbVLHy9Lvw
reohn2
Posts: 45807
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Hope in Israel/Palestine

Post by reohn2 »

With Russia invading Ukraine,Israeli genocide in Gaza and invasion of Lebanon,chances of increasing involvement of Iran on a large scale and it's allying with Russia and North Korea who is allied with China,are we sleepwalking into WW3?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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