Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

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Brucey
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Brucey »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Jun 2024, 1:30pm What is the benefit of adding extra indexing marks? ..... what extra information would I see if I added a mark at all eleven?
as per my post upthread, you will be able to more easily diagnose a faulty cable.
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jb
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by jb »

simonineaston wrote: 2 Jun 2024, 1:30pm What is the benefit of adding extra indexing marks? I can see why Shimano chose to place their single index point at gear 6, ‘cos its mid range, but what extra information would I see if I added a mark at all eleven?
A piece of grit in the pulley would not necessarily show a fault on the yellow mark but misalignment could show up as the cable rides over the offending piece of grit in a higher/lower* gear.
*(corrected for model type)
Last edited by jb on 4 Jun 2024, 9:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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simonineaston
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by simonineaston »

Thanks. I can see now that all other things being equal, the single alignment mark is perfectly adequate, but that where the cable fails to interact with the pulley properly, for one reason and another, one or more of 11 alignment marks may show as off.
Since I'm in the middle of a major refit of the AlFeeNay-equipped cycle, I think I might give that a go!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Tom60
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Tom60 »

On a recent cycling trip across Europe my Alfine 11 failed. The French bike mechanic couldn't repair it and in order to continue the trip I had to buy a replacement wheel and hub. Now I'm back home I've been able to carefully inspect the defective Alfine and realised I probably caused the problem. During the trip a rubber bungie cord holding my bag on the rear carrier came loose and dropped into the gap between the rear chain sprocket and the dust cap. It tightly wound itself into the small gap between the dust cap and the sprocket eventually seizing the wheel.
I was unable to unwind the bungie and had to resort to cutting it into pieces. During the removal the bungie started to delaminate.

Whilst the wheel now turned I only had gears 1, 9,10,11. I needed gears 5 & 6. This is why a replacement Alfine was required.

Once back home I removed the dust cap and noticed half a rubber o ring drop out. But the Alfine doesn't have an o ring! That's when I realised it was probably part of the bungie. A careful examination of the axle with a magnifying glass revealed a tiny piece of rubber from the bungie caught between the cam and the axle (see photos) The rubber was removed using a pin and the hub now works correctly.

The original hub has now done 15000+ km with the only issues being this one (my fault) and a kinked gear cable, which resulted in intermittent gear changes.
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simonineaston
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by simonineaston »

Thanks for taking the time & trouble to investigate & report back to us. A Big Tick for the Alfine, in a way. I hope you enjoyed your trip.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Brucey
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Brucey »

Tom60 wrote: 13 Oct 2024, 6:37am... The French bike mechanic couldn't repair it....
Doesn't say much for French cycle mechanics, does it? Was he blind, perchance?

Mind you, they are very keen on derailleurs over there; he'd probably never seen such a thing before. Perhaps this should be a consideration for folk inclined to sally forth in foreign climes?

btw bungy accidents which destroy (or appear to destroy) hubs are not uncommon.
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rareposter
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by rareposter »

Brucey wrote: 13 Oct 2024, 1:56pm Doesn't say much for French cycle mechanics, does it? Was he blind, perchance?

Mind you, they are very keen on derailleurs over there; he'd probably never seen such a thing before.
That's somewhat derogatory. I suspect, as with many bike shops, having a cycle tourer arrive with an "I've broken this, can you fix it?" is generally regarded as a bit of a pain. They'll have a workshop full of booked in bikes and the idea that they should drop everything and "just" fix what is potentially a complicated and time consuming problem is usually going to be met with a less than enthusiastic response.

Far and away the easiest option (including for the customer who generally has a timetable to stick to and needs to be 50km up the road by nightfall) is to just sell them a new [thing] to get them on their way.

It's one thing "just" fixing a puncture, quite another to be stripping and rebuilding an IGH.

I worked in a shop that was on a couple of popular touring routes and it wasn't uncommon in summer to get one or two of these a week. We'd fix what we could and we had a policy of keeping a workshop slot available at certain times anyway specifically to fix those "can you just...?" issues (usually commuters with punctures, occasionally a more complex problem from a tourer) but there were a number of occasions where we just told the truth - yes we can fix it but it'll take 2 days (based on the complexity of the job, the availability of mechanics and spare parts, how busy the workshop was and so on) or we can sell you this new part, fit it and have you on your way in 2hrs.
Brucey
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Brucey »

rareposter wrote: 13 Oct 2024, 4:04pm....somewhat derogatory. I suspect.....
'could not be fixed' he said, despite the fact there were still large chunks of rubber in the workings...I wonder how hard he tried before opting for the safe (for him, expensive for the customer) choice? Quite happy to give anyone the benefit of the doubt btw.....
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Tom60
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Tom60 »

To be fair to the mechanic he was prepared to investigate further, but suggested the labour cost would be more than a new hub. I didn't buy the replacement from him and continue for a further day persevering with the limited gear range until I reached Strasbourg. The Shimano dealer there (Giant) couldn't supply a replacement Alfine and I eventually had one delivered from Bonn. It was actually cheaper to buy one already in a wheel.

3000km trip on Eurovelos 5 and 15 (9 countries in 6 weeks). Like my original Alfine, the replacement hasn't missed a beat. Love it!
Carlton green
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Carlton green »

Incredibly this thread is well over ten years old and sixty plus pages long! I wonder whether there was ever any consensus(es) reached??

My existing frames aren’t wide enough to take one of these hubs, but who knows what the future will bring. For Shimano hub gears I do wonder about spares support and availability and repairability.

Is a six week trip and 3000Km of reliable riding much of a recommendation? It’s some and I’m maybe hard to please, but I’m thinking of say 50,000 miles and say 10 years of service as reliable, and easy to fix when it does eventually break. No doubt Brucey had some hub gears that achieved that (elusive?) standard.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
brumster
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by brumster »

Brucey wrote: 13 Oct 2024, 1:56pm
Tom60 wrote: 13 Oct 2024, 6:37am... The French bike mechanic couldn't repair it....
btw bungy accidents which destroy (or appear to destroy) hubs are not uncommon.
Not by a long stretch ! 🤣
rareposter
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by rareposter »

Carlton green wrote: 14 Oct 2024, 1:37pm Is a six week trip and 3000Km of reliable riding much of a recommendation? It’s some and I’m maybe hard to please, but I’m thinking of say 50,000 miles and say 10 years of service as reliable, and easy to fix when it does eventually break.
Shimano quote the approx life expectancy of an Alfine 11 at about 50,000 miles. There are (allegedly) Rohloff hubs on 5x that mileage although equally, they're not far off 5x the price of an Alfine!

Problem is that a lot of IGH are used on utility bikes so they typically see low mileage and relatively low demand / low intensity usage - as a result it's not easy to extrapolate that up to touring mileage with a loaded bike and the increased demands that puts on a drivetrain.

Enviolo reckon their Continuously Variable Transmission hubs will do up to about 25,000 miles with zero maintenance. Then you just bin the hub. Personally I love Enviolo hubs on e-bikes, they're brilliant on e-cargo in particular but they're not great on unpowered bikes cos they're noticeably less efficient than a step-geared hub.

CyclingAbout (Youtube channel) has put hundreds of thousands of miles onto various hubs over the years, his videos are worth a watch. He's a big fan of IGH and belt drive systems.
Carlton green wrote: 14 Oct 2024, 1:37pm For Shimano hub gears I do wonder about spares support and availability and repairability.
Given the ubiquity of Shimano worldwide, they're probably the easiest things to get spares and repairs for! Plus there's really not a lot to go wrong with an IGH.
Tom60
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Tom60 »

I didn't write the Alfine had only done 3000km before I had a problem. It's done in excess of 10,000km including two trips around Taiwan crossing some of the highest mountains in east Asia. The hub has not failed. It was my failure allowing the bungie rubber to catch in it. Once the snagged rubber was removed the hub was fine.

Obtaining a replacement hub in France/Germany wasn't easy. The quickest option was to buy the hub already laced into a rim. My impression was that urgently needing a spare part might be difficult. It appears they are not common in my country (Australia) as each time I've taken it to a bike shop (a very infrequent occurrence) the mechanics look at it with interest having never seen one!
deeferdonk
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by deeferdonk »

i bought a very well used second hand moulton TSR with an alfine 11 hub. It was a bit battered and the seal was cracked so it wouldn't hold the transmission fluid. I was able to buy new seals and outer plastic bits but it was never quite right, i assume it had been run for a while with inadequate lubrication, and water, and muck ingress. I was able to buy a whole new internal for the hub and installed it in the old shell/wheel. Can't recall where i bought the internals (must have been a random shop that google bought up) , but all the seals and periphery items came from SJS cycles. Has run fine since - do notice that i have to tune the gearing a bit more often than another bike i had with Alfine 8 hub.
Carlton green
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Re: Shimano Alfine 11 - Longer term reliability

Post by Carlton green »

Thanks for the replies above. For the moment I’ll take that as:
These hubs are considered reliable and capable - but keep them well oiled and properly adjusted.
Spares supply is typically good enough to keep you going.
The replacement price of them is relatively affordable, and it is also reasonably low compared to the service that they give.
The bulk of riders will never exhaust the hub’s service life.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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