Conspiracy Theories

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PDQ Mobile
Posts: 4835
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Nearholmer wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 7:39pm
Here's something that looks very much like a conspiracy.
That one looks to me like the secret service trying to maintain drum-tight secrecy.

The dictionary definition of conspiracy seems to involve plotting something illegal or harmful, so it feels like a bit of a stretch to accuse “our lot” of that in this instance (there have been other definite, and multiple suspected, instances where they have), whereas the Russians definitely conspired to murder the Skripals.
Agree.
Probably should have said "conspiracy of silence".
Had consequences though.
Did you read all of the article?

I did think parts of it pretty extraordinary.
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by PDQ Mobile »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 7:28pm
The emboldened above is classic conspiracy ideation.

"There must be something wrong"

The Chinese govt is an authoritarian dictatorship which keeps information controlled when an iron first. It would be quite astonishing if they allowed a genuinely independent external inquiry into anything on their soil, let alone something of this import.

As to the mods refusing to allow the site to become a mouthpiece of conspiracy theories damaging to public health: good on them.
YVMV.

Your quote is too selective as I gave my reasons for saying it in the following sentence which you choose to omit.
I think the logic pretty good.
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Nearholmer »

I did read it all.
roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by roubaixtuesday »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 8:11pm
roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 7:28pm
The emboldened above is classic conspiracy ideation.

"There must be something wrong"

The Chinese govt is an authoritarian dictatorship which keeps information controlled when an iron first. It would be quite astonishing if they allowed a genuinely independent external inquiry into anything on their soil, let alone something of this import.

As to the mods refusing to allow the site to become a mouthpiece of conspiracy theories damaging to public health: good on them.
YVMV.

Your quote is too selective as I gave my reasons for saying it in the following sentence which you choose to omit.
I think the logic pretty good.
Too selective?

I quoted your entire post!
cycle tramp
Posts: 4396
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by cycle tramp »

pwa wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 7:05pm
The masons I have known have been the most ordinary people you could imagine.
Indeed, I have found the same with some druids.

In the case of Free Masons one thing I've never been able to establish is whether belonging to the organisation gives members any powers over other members, which are then used to compel them the carry out actions which otherwise they would not have normally done so in the course of their lives.
Dedicated to anyone who has reached that stage https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqbk9cDX0l0 (please note may include humorous swearing)
Jdsk
Posts: 27884
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

We can watch a conspiracy theory developing and being exploited in the reactions to the Southport deaths:
viewtopic.php?p=1878997#p1878997

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

Here's something that looks very much like a conspiracy.


"Cockroft described how on 8 March 2018 a colleague ordered a “sedation hold” on Yulia, which is routinely done in patients who are being kept unconscious.
A staff member shouted to Cockroft: “Steve, come quick. Yulia is getting out of bed.” He said: “I grabbed hold of her hands and started to talk to her.” He told her she and her father had been taken ill. He asked her: “Did anyone attack you? Did anyone spray anything over you?”

Cockroft said he was trying to comfort Yulia and she went back to sleep about five minutes later.
The inquiry was told Dr Christine Blanchard, the hospital’s medical director, removed Cockroft from the intensive care rota. He said he was told he “hadn’t been wise” to speak to Yulia about what had happened and it would be treated as “serious misconduct” if he discussed “any aspect of the poisonings” with colleagues or other people.
Cockroft said he was stopped from talking at two meetings between professionals in April and June 2018. “I felt it absolutely vital that we share the knowledge,” he said."

From here:-
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... uiry-hears
Cockcroft's Witness Statements are available on the Inquiry website:
https://www.dawnsturgess.independent-in ... /hearings/

It's not at all clear what happened and why. It's good that the Inquiry is being held. But it probably won't explain what happened here because its scope is limited to the death of Dawn Sturgess.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

"My friend has embraced conspiracy theories and I’m fed up with it":
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... up-with-it

Jonathan
Biospace
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Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Biospace »

pwa wrote: 19 Feb 2024, 7:35am Last night my wife returned home from visiting her mother, armed with an antique book she had acquired. It purports to be a book of facts about the world, but through the prism of the British Empire. I can find no date on it, but at the moment I'm thinking it must have been written about 1920. And many of the "facts" within it amount to "old wives tales" and theories based on bigotry. I was reading it after consuming a glass of wine, so it made me laugh. But it could equally well be seen as sad and appalling.

The "facts" about other (than white) races are stark and without any restraint. The white Northern European race is the cleverest, probably helped by a temperate climate that has made us busy and industrious. The darker races (subdivided and talked about in some detail) are less intellectual and benefit from being governed by the white race. Maories are the cleverest of the darker people. Dutch people in Holland are nicer than Dutch people in southern Africa because the African climate makes them irritable. And so on. All bonkers, and unacceptable to modern thinking. And generally just plain wrong.

And this brought home to me that utter rubbish has been disseminated as fact throughout history. It has shaped thinking and helped to make the societies we have lived in. What has changed is the way in which utter rubbish is passed around, discussed and reinforced. The big change is the Web.
So true, such "facts" are always very carefully protected and controlled when Government wishes them to be normalised in people's minds. When very large sums of money are involved, use of "facts" can create perceptions in many/most which are a very long way from The Truth.

In his 1911 essay "The Mind of Primitive Man", Franz Boas contended intellectual ability was not determined by race, against the prevailing slants offered by various Western Governments at the time.

Despite the clear evidence presented, he was attacked for his work with others often citing studies that supported their views, nitpicking their way through his work and dismissing his findings as ideologically driven or lacking empirical rigour. His critiques of racial theories were seen as radical at the time and led to tensions with more mainstream anthropologists and biologists who stuck to the accepted racial classifications.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 29 Oct 2024, 6:23pm
Jdsk wrote: 27 Oct 2024, 9:48am
pwa wrote: 27 Oct 2024, 4:43am COVID stirred up a flurry of conspiracy theories, perhaps inevitably, and I sometimes work alongside a bloke who has succumbed to one.

He didn't get very far with it when he started telling me about it, because tact isn't my default in situations like that. But he says that COVID was a hoax. Ridiculous even with just a cursory glance, of course. How many national governments would have to be in on it for such a hoax to work? Why would they all do it? Why would the overwhelming majority of health professionals not raise the alarm about a bogus pandemic? Bonkers. Which is basically what I told him, but using language frowned upon here.

There are legitimate questions to be raised about the way COVID was addressed, of course. But this was deeply into the realms of fantasy. It is a pity, because up to that point I got on really well with that bloke.
And of course it's been tried on in this forum. IMHO the Moderators have handled this well by concentrating on harm rather than truth.
"Former GB News presenter ordered to pay £50,000 in legal costs":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... egal-costs

Same principle: concentrate on the harm rather than the beliefs.
And another COVID conspiracy theorist has been sentenced to five years' imprisonment. But because he encouraged harm, not because of his beliefs:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/covid-d ... m-offences
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ris-whitty

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by PDQ Mobile »

^^^
Five years seems excessive to me.
A late night alcohol induced moment of madness, by some accounts.

Just a few weeks/months would be just as effective as a deterrent?
(And cost the rest of us a lot less)

A well known recent (successful) political candidate made all sorts of threats/suggestions of violence to his detractors with impunity!!
Jdsk
Posts: 27884
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by Jdsk »

A late night alcohol induced moment of madness, by some accounts.
"Acting Commander Gareth Rees, from the Metropolitan Police’s Counter Terrorism Command said: “Our investigation found large numbers of posts by Ruane where he was encouraging others to carry out extremely violent acts, all because he didn’t like the government’s response to the pandemic.
"This wasn’t idle chit-chat online – he was encouraging people to seriously injure or kill others, suggesting who to target."

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/covid-d ... m-offences

Jonathan
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Jdsk wrote: 12 Nov 2024, 9:33am
A late night alcohol induced moment of madness, by some accounts.
"Acting Commander Gareth Rees, from the Metropolitan Police’s Counter Terrorism Command said: “Our investigation found large numbers of posts by Ruane where he was encouraging others to carry out extremely violent acts, all because he didn’t like the government’s response to the pandemic.
"This wasn’t idle chit-chat online – he was encouraging people to seriously injure or kill others, suggesting who to target."

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/covid-d ... m-offences

Jonathan
So if there was more then the Court sentenced accordingly.
Fair enough.
It wasn't clear from what I read.


However the discrepancy between this and the "well known successful political candidate" still seems somewhat stark.

And some people have had less time for actual harmful physical assaults.
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by pete75 »

cycle tramp wrote: 3 Nov 2024, 9:21am
pwa wrote: 2 Nov 2024, 7:05pm
The masons I have known have been the most ordinary people you could imagine.
Indeed, I have found the same with some druids.
Druids? I thought the Romans did for them.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
mattheus
Posts: 5789
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Conspiracy Theories

Post by mattheus »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 12 Nov 2024, 10:24am
Jdsk wrote: 12 Nov 2024, 9:33am
A late night alcohol induced moment of madness, by some accounts.
"Acting Commander Gareth Rees, from the Metropolitan Police’s Counter Terrorism Command said: “Our investigation found large numbers of posts by Ruane where he was encouraging others to carry out extremely violent acts, all because he didn’t like the government’s response to the pandemic.
"This wasn’t idle chit-chat online – he was encouraging people to seriously injure or kill others, suggesting who to target."

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/covid-d ... m-offences

Jonathan
So if there was more then the Court sentenced accordingly.
Fair enough.
It wasn't clear from what I read.


However the discrepancy between this and the "well known successful political candidate" still seems somewhat stark.

And some people have had less time for actual harmful physical assaults.
The courts don't work like that.
"Your Honour, here is another kinda similar case where the geezer only got x Years, so my guy should get the same or less."
You're wasting your time making comparisons.
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