E Bike choice help

[Chris_Hawk]

Hi everyone

Looking to pick people's minds on getting an ebike. Bit of background I am recovering from getting my left ankle fused after badly breaking it about 19 years ago and ending up with end state osteoarthritis. I am looking to get the bike on the cycle to work scheme so my budget is 2k, I currently have a Riverside 900 'manual' bike that I bought from Decathlon around 2.5 years ago. My cycling is very weekend based, I live on the south east coat (near Sandwich/Deal) so my riding is a mix of road and gravel pathways so I like the hybrid style of bike.

Initially I considered converting my existing bike using a kit (only really looked at the Switch to date) but have recently been considering getting a ebike rather than converting.

A work colleague with a few bikes recommended I look at Ribble and their Hybrid Al E is currently in a Black Friday deal so with Pedals is coming out at just over £1800. As I am currently non weight bearing post op I also took to YouTube where decent UK based comparative reviews seem to be slim pickings but that did lead me to also considering the estarli e28.9 which is also around £1800.

The estarli is newer and has a slightly better motor and to be honest I prefer the look of over the Ribble.

Really interested in any thoughts on both bikes, any other bike suggestions and any resources for reviews I had not considered.

Many thanks in advance for your anticipated help and guidance

[stodd]

A lot to be said for converting if you like your current bike.
I wouldn't go for Swytch; there are compatibility issues if anything needs replacing.
Do a search at https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum and you will see a variety of issues.
Their marketing is very good though.

A lot of ready built electric bikes also have similar compatibility issues; you can easily get very locked in by a particular brand.

Have a look at Woosh (https://wooshbikes.co.uk); both for conversion (various kits)
and possibly a full bike (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?faro) though probably not as sporty as your current bike.

[Jodel]

I agree with what stodd has said in his post above. Another thing to think about is how the e-bike 'triggers' its motor. Most (all?) of the mid-drive motors use torque sensing to activate the motor. I won't go into the plus / minus points of each type of motor as they all have their good / bad points. Torque sensing can work very well, but it means that you need to put some pressure on the pedals to get the motor to run.

I have a dodgy ankle (arthritis) and pressing hard on the pedals can be very uncomfortable for me. I can't stand on the pedals any more on a climb for example. My hub-motor kit uses cadence sensing to activate the motor. That means power from the motor is delivered regardless of how much effort I put in - all I have to do is turn the cranks.

If it is possible, it would be well worth trying out different bike types before you commit to a purchase as you may find what seems on paper like a good solution isn't what you expect - and vice-versa.

As stodd suggests, have good browse around on the pedelecs forum, there's a lot of information on there. As with any internet forum, you will find some quite entrenched views but you'll get a good overview of the options.

If you are even slightly handy at spanner twiddling, converting your own bike will give you a lot of options. I've converted two of my bikes with rear hub-motors (from Woosh) and have been more than happy with the results.

[francovendee]

I'd certainly think about adding a motor to a bike. The only thing to remember is it will change the feel of the bike. It rides differently due to the additional weight of the battery and motor.
I did this to a favourite bike and I've learnt to accept it feels different but very glad of some help on hills.

[Chris_Hawk]

Thanks for the input, will have a look at the suggested links

[Brik]

Most (all?) of the mid-drive motors use torque sensing to activate the motor.

You raise good points for the O.P. but I have 2 ebikes that I have converted from regular push bikes myself, they both use Bafang bbs mid drive motors that are cadence activated, the motor kicks in as soon as the pedals are turned. The kits also come with thumb throttles that, I imagine, are very convenient if you have any disabilities that affect leg movement.

[Jodel]

Brik, you're quite correct. I'd forgotten that a lot of the mid-drive conversion kits are cadence sensing - I was thinking primarily of factory built bikes.

In the kit marketplace, I think it's only Tongshen that ship with a torque sensor.

The reason I tend not to think about mid-drives is that I wanted to retain the triple chainsets on the tandem and my solo. Usually, the mid-drive conversions restrict you to a single front ring as getting a decent chainline can be difficult.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is no criticism of mid-drive conversions. As I mentioned in my original post, there are plus / minus points for each type and it's worth having a ride on each to see what best suits the individual.

[Brik]

The reason I tend not to think about mid-drives is that I wanted to retain the triple chainsets on the tandem and my solo. Usually, the mid-drive conversions restrict you to a single front ring as getting a decent chainline can be difficult.

In my experience the addition of a motor negates the need for such a widespread gear set. My bbs02b has too much power so can easily manage to accelerate me up any hill.
Even my 250w BBS01B doesn't struggle.

[stodd]

The reason I tend not to think about mid-drives is that I wanted to retain the triple chainsets on the tandem and my solo. Usually, the mid-drive conversions restrict you to a single front ring as getting a decent chainline can be difficult.

In my experience the addition of a motor negates the need for such a widespread gear set. My bbs02b has too much power so can easily manage to accelerate me up any hill.
Even my 250w BBS01B doesn't struggle.

Unless you have a very potent motor you may still want all the gears on a tandem, as Jodel suggests. Trouble is that by the time you are needing the lowest gear any hub motor has got itself into severe inefficiency region.

[Jodel]

In about 5,000 miles of use on the tandem, the stoker has only ever dismounted once on a 20% plus gradient. I then rode the bike up to the top. Shortage of 'oomph' from the motor hasn't been an issue really (but mid-drives are definitely better for very steep climbs or off-road use). We generally only use the lower power levels on our (48 volt / 17 amp) motor, but if you crank up the power it will still sail up most inclines. There is no way our hub motor could match a 48 volt / 25 amp bbs02b though.

We are 'spinners' (usually average 90rpm cadence) rather than 'stompers' and prefer each gear shift to give less than a 10rpm change in cadence. This means close-ratio gears which is more difficult to achieve on a mid-drive with a single or even double chainset. Plus, on a tandem, you need more gears than a solo as they climb more slowly and descend a lot faster. I know from data captured by my wireless shifters (arthritic thumbs struggle with conventional shifters) that I can make between 350- 700 gear changes on a 30 mile ride.

The 'best' motor depends on how you want to use the bike which is why I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all when it comes to e-bikes. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. The one mid-drive motor I really like is the 12 speed Pinion motor gear box - especially as it can be set up to give automatic shifting. I would be prepared to compromise a bit on the requirement for close ratios for that unit!

stodd is correct too in stating that hub motors lose a lot of efficiency when they are bogged down at low rpm. On the tandem, we rarely drop below a climbing speed of about 8mph. Sustained climbing at a lower speed than this is turning most of the battery power into heat rather than forward motion. With exactly the same motor on my solo, I can still climb any hill I've encountered at 12 - 15 mph, so torque / power is not really a problem. My hub motor is wound for 210rpm on a 700C wheel so prioritises torque over speed - just what is needed on something big and heavy like the tandem.

[Manc33]

A lot to be said for converting if you like your current bike.

I did this but eBikes have come down in price a lot since. It was a 2 day faff, but it's still working over 1,000 miles later.

The range for me was the biggest issue. I'm lugging around a 5KG battery that's around 1100 Wh. None of the pre-built bikes seemed to have a battery this big, usually half that. It depends if you want to do a 50 mile ride and still have power by the time you get back.

Their marketing is very good though.

So is your polite way of putting things.

A lot of ready built electric bikes also have similar compatibility issues; you can easily get very locked in by a particular brand.

When I saw prices like £1,000 for a 625 Wh battery that has to be that specific one to fit in your specific frame, it was an easy decision to DIY.

I'd value my bike at maybe £2000 to £2500 but it's a used carbon frame, used XT this, used XTR that. Way better stuff on it than would be on a £2000 eBike.