Taxes and the farmers

[Biospace]

...
Your quote is highly misleading, and appears deliberately so, picking numbers to make nitrous oxide seem worse than CO2, when it qualitatively is not...

Yes, he (think it was a male farmer) clearly made a mistake with the “1000s years” comment which I missed, not sure whether it was a mis-type and a confusion with CO2 or whether there was a genuine misunderstanding of the properties of the gas. I don't read it as something deliberately intended to mislead, but clearly you suspect otherwise.

The post was either from a farming forum or some form of social media, certainly nothing academic. Well done for picking up the error.

The point which resonated for me was that ‘conventional’ modern farming practices with their tendency to large application of synthetic chemicals, high levels of both disturbance and compaction of soils, monocultural practices and loss of natural habitats and microbial life are increasingly being recognised for their short term vision with significant longer term problems.

[roubaixtuesday]

The point which resonated for me was that ‘conventional’ modern farming practices with their tendency to large application of synthetic chemicals, high levels of both disturbance and compaction of soils, monocultural practices and loss of natural habitats and microbial life are increasingly being recognised for their short term vision with significant longer term problems.

The point has IMO some validity; that entirely false assertions about atmospheric physics are made to support it makes me doubt it, though.

[Biospace]

Of course - we all navigate life with a different set of skills. I'm inclined to believe he wasn't out to mislead (and nor was I in quoting him and not picking up on this obvious mistake), but see in your world of Physics any such mistake can have more bearing than otherwise it might.

[roubaixtuesday]

Of course - we all navigate life with a different set of skills. I'm inclined to believe he wasn't out to mislead (and nor was I in quoting him and not picking up on this obvious mistake), but see in your world of Physics any such mistake can have more bearing than otherwise it might.

Pretending CO2 isn't driving climate change is deliberately misleading, unless you've been living under a rock for the last few decades.

And if you don't understand something, you've no business making assertions in direct contradiction to mainstream science.

The CO2 rise is not a "natural cycle". It's caused by man.

Nitrogen oxide is not far more problematic.

These are the standard lies of climate denial.

[Biospace]

Could it be possible you're misunderstanding what you've read?

Where does that farmer say or suggest that climate change itself is not in part anthropogenic? And perhaps it's not made sufficiently clear that the statement is made from a farmer's perspective?

"Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally, Independent agricultural research has shown pollution, CAFOs, monocrops, and nitrogen oxidation are far more problematic than natural CO2 cycles."

[roubaixtuesday]

Where does that farmer say or suggest that climate change itself is not in part anthropogenic?

Where "natural CO2 cycles" are quoted.

And it's not "in part"

The best estimate of human contribution to recent warning due to greenhouse gas is 100%.

[Cowsham]

Heard a program on BBC R4 today about Jacques Cousteau and his controversial interview where he said the world's population was the thing that needed curbed -- reduce by 350,000 / day !

https://interview.sweetsearch.com/2011/ ... he%20asked.

[pwa]

That concern with population growth was common back then. And if Cousteau could return for a day, he would feel vindicated. He would see the great loss of habitats, the deforestation, the plastics in the seas, and the loss of coral with climate change, and despair at the way we have fouled our own nest.

Bringing it back to farmers, and making it more positive, over the last decade one of our local farmers has gone organic and integrated the promotion of wildlife into farm management. They have also moved away from deep ploughing. Better management of farmland can only happen when farmers are engaged in positive change. When they are, they can be a force for good.

[Biospace]

Where does that farmer say or suggest that climate change itself is not in part anthropogenic?

Where "natural CO2 cycles" are quoted.

And it's not "in part"

The best estimate of human contribution to recent warning due to greenhouse gas is 100%.

Ah I see, you're inferring climate change denial where he said,

• "Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally, Independent agricultural research has shown pollution, CAFOs, monocrops, and nitrogen oxidation are far more problematic than natural CO2 cycles."

Remember he was speaking as a farmer, and how crop production is affected. With well-managed land which is resilient to the increase in extremes, it is possible the more carbon dioxide will lead to more growth, that warmer temperatures will increase the growing season length.

His opinion was that contemporary farming practice is more of a problem than CO2 levels for arable farming.

[roubaixtuesday]

Where does that farmer say or suggest that climate change itself is not in part anthropogenic?

Where "natural CO2 cycles" are quoted.

And it's not "in part"

The best estimate of human contribution to recent warning due to greenhouse gas is 100%.

Ah I see, you're inferring climate change denial where he said,

• "Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally, Independent agricultural research has shown pollution, CAFOs, monocrops, and nitrogen oxidation are far more problematic than natural CO2 cycles."

Remember he was speaking as a farmer, and how crop production is affected. With well-managed land which is resilient to the increase in extremes, it is possible the more carbon dioxide will lead to more growth, that warmer temperatures will increase the growing season length.

His opinion was that contemporary farming practice is more of a problem than CO2 levels for arable farming.

That's frankly, quite a stretch. To put it mildly. It's great that you can read the mind of the farmer, though.

Why are "natural Co2" cycles invoked?
Why are we presented with a true but highly misleading factoid "Nitrogen oxide gas is far more potent than CO2"?

But you can easily resolve these by showing us the referenced "original research" by "Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally".

Noting that thus far, yet again, I've been providing referenced facts and figures which show the assertions to be wrong, whereas you've provided totally unreferenced assertions.

[Cowsham]

That concern with population growth was common back then. And if Cousteau could return for a day, he would feel vindicated. He would see the great loss of habitats, the deforestation, the plastics in the seas, and the loss of coral with climate change, and despair at the way we have fouled our own nest.

Bringing it back to farmers, and making it more positive, over the last decade one of our local farmers has gone organic and integrated the promotion of wildlife into farm management. They have also moved away from deep ploughing. Better management of farmland can only happen when farmers are engaged in positive change. When they are, they can be a force for good.

Will they be affected by the iht changes?

[pwa]

That concern with population growth was common back then. And if Cousteau could return for a day, he would feel vindicated. He would see the great loss of habitats, the deforestation, the plastics in the seas, and the loss of coral with climate change, and despair at the way we have fouled our own nest.

Bringing it back to farmers, and making it more positive, over the last decade one of our local farmers has gone organic and integrated the promotion of wildlife into farm management. They have also moved away from deep ploughing. Better management of farmland can only happen when farmers are engaged in positive change. When they are, they can be a force for good.

Will they be affected by the iht changes?

I don't know, and for me the question is whether viable working farms are able to stay viable, without having to sell off land needed for economies of scale, and without stalling investment in the business. I hear conflicting views on that.

[Cowsham]

That concern with population growth was common back then. And if Cousteau could return for a day, he would feel vindicated. He would see the great loss of habitats, the deforestation, the plastics in the seas, and the loss of coral with climate change, and despair at the way we have fouled our own nest.

Bringing it back to farmers, and making it more positive, over the last decade one of our local farmers has gone organic and integrated the promotion of wildlife into farm management. They have also moved away from deep ploughing. Better management of farmland can only happen when farmers are engaged in positive change. When they are, they can be a force for good.

Will they be affected by the iht changes?

I don't know, and for me the question is whether viable working farms are able to stay viable, without having to sell off land needed for economies of scale, and without stalling investment in the business. I hear conflicting views on that.

If you didn't need all the land for economies of scale but needed investment in machinery they could possibly sell off land to bring the assets down reinvesting it in machinery etc problem with reinvesting in buildings ie facilities is that it's not deemed as an asset that's worthless in 50 years like machinery so exempt from CGT and to a large extent iht ( last time I checked -- hope this goose killing government doesn't change that )

It's a load more bother to upset good viable businesses -- I wonder if you could offset the trauma and costs on farms to the profit and loss account to the extent that the government owes you money. As well as all the extra staff the tax office would need to pay it'll be like the government is shooting itself in the foot.

[Biospace]

That's frankly, quite a stretch. To put it mildly. It's great that you can read the mind of the farmer, though.

Why are "natural Co2" cycles invoked?
Why are we presented with a true but highly misleading factoid "Nitrogen oxide gas is far more potent than CO2"?

But you can easily resolve these by showing us the referenced "original research" by "Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally".

Noting that thus far, yet again, I've been providing referenced facts and figures which show the assertions to be wrong, whereas you've provided totally unreferenced assertions.

A stretch that you read into his words that he was somehow denying Mankind is affecting our climate? Or a stretch that I gleaned from his words that BigAg and contemporary farming with its short termism is not sustainable?

Whichever, I suggest you take your issues up with him, if Google can find the posting.

[roubaixtuesday]

That's frankly, quite a stretch. To put it mildly. It's great that you can read the mind of the farmer, though.

Why are "natural Co2" cycles invoked?
Why are we presented with a true but highly misleading factoid "Nitrogen oxide gas is far more potent than CO2"?

But you can easily resolve these by showing us the referenced "original research" by "Rothamstead, the longest agricultural research centre globally".

Noting that thus far, yet again, I've been providing referenced facts and figures which show the assertions to be wrong, whereas you've provided totally unreferenced assertions.

A stretch that you read into his words that he was somehow denying Mankind is affecting our climate? Or a stretch that I gleaned from his words that BigAg and contemporary farming with its short termism is not sustainable?

Whichever, I suggest you take your issues up with him, if Google can find the posting.

You're quoting someone without attribution who is writing completely false statements about climate change.

When challenged on this you obfuscate and deflect.

Not impressive.