Shimergo - latest news

[amediasatex]

Boredom + tools + parts = experimenting!

9 speed Ergos
10 speed Dynasys MTB rear derailleur
9 speed (9 of 10) 13-36 cassette


Small modification to rear mech to adjust pull ratio and all running smoothly

Opens up options for bigger cassettes while still using my favourite shaped gen2 Ergos

Modification could be neater, probably need to shape the hole a little more to align with cable path but it’s working nicely as is!

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60k test ride last night confirms shifting spot on, one shift on the whole ride that was a bit clunky but I put that down to cable bed in as a half twist on the adjuster and no more issues.

When I have more time I’m going to slot the hole and see if I can manage to give more range over leverage tweak as currently it’s ~1.3 with the hole where it is, but if slotted deeper could potentially get close to 1.4 depending on how I can arrange the clamp on the other side with washers, that might then allow using 10speed Ergos as well with a full 10speed shimano cassette.

[CJ]

Boredom + tools + parts = experimenting!

9 speed Ergos
10 speed Dynasys MTB rear derailleur
9 speed (9 of 10) 13-36 cassette


Small modification to rear mech to adjust pull ratio and all running smoothly

Opens up options for bigger cassettes while still using my favourite shaped gen2 Ergos

Modification could be neater, probably need to shape the hole a little more to align with cable path but it’s working nicely as is!

IMG_0510.jpeg
IMG_0511.jpeg
IMG_0512.jpeg

60k test ride last night confirms shifting spot on, one shift on the whole ride that was a bit clunky but I put that down to cable bed in as a half twist on the adjuster and no more issues.

When I have more time I’m going to slot the hole and see if I can manage to give more range over leverage tweak as currently it’s ~1.3 with the hole where it is, but if slotted deeper could potentially get close to 1.4 depending on how I can arrange the clamp on the other side with washers, that might then allow using 10speed Ergos as well with a full 10speed shimano cassette.

That looks like a very useful modification of a Dyna-Sys mech. I'm looking to add mid-drive electric assist to my tourer some time soon and when I do the transmission will become "one ring short of a chainset" with a single chainwheel no smaller than 40! To ensure I can still climb steep hills I'll want an 11-51 11-speed cassette, that needs a special 1×11-speed Dyna-Sys mech. And I'd rather like to keep my dropped handlebar. So if this mod will mate a Dyna-Sys mech and cassette with a same-number-of-speeds Campag Ergo shifter...

[maanderx]

Be aware that experimenting with non-standard setups like Shimergo is often met with scepticism here. When I shared my own working Shimergo combination recently, the response was lukewarm at best and dismissive at worst, disregarding it entirely in favour of theoretical mismatches.

The respondents seem to be focusing strictly on exact millimetres of cable pull per shift, rather than acknowledging actual real-world results. It’s a case of 'the computer says no,' even when the setup clearly works in practice.

[Brucey]

The respondents seem to be focusing strictly on exact millimetres of cable pull per shift, rather than acknowledging actual real-world results......

there are all kinds of setups that are 'good enough'. The reason that some folk (like the manufacturers) seem fixated on accuracy is that experience says that is these accurate setups which have the best chance for a long, trouble-free life.

[maanderx]

The respondents seem to be focusing strictly on exact millimetres of cable pull per shift, rather than acknowledging actual real-world results......

there are all kinds of setups that are 'good enough'. The reason that some folk (like the manufacturers) seem fixated on accuracy is that experience says that is these accurate setups which have the best chance for a long, trouble-free life.

Not just 'good enough' but as good as matched components. I have been using various
Shimergo combinations since 2003 and have never had any problems. Accurate shifting
up and down the cassette without any hitches. Proper real-world experience.

Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

[Brucey]

I don't think anyone is 'knocking it' so much as they are pointing out that it is not a perfect match.

[maanderx]

I don't think anyone is 'knocking it' so much as they are pointing out that it is not a perfect match.

But the shifting is perfect up and down the cassette.

[RJC]

In this case there is the slight mystery that the same shifter/derailleur combination of 10 speed Campag/GRX400 derailleur can work with both a 9 & 10 speed cassette.

[Brucey]

I don't think anyone is 'knocking it' so much as they are pointing out that it is not a perfect match.

But the shifting is perfect up and down the cassette.

that you happen to think it is 'good enough' is all well and good, but it is not necessarily the same thing as an exact match. IME the former is more likely to go out of adjustment.

[maanderx]

that you happen to think it is 'good enough' is all well and good, but it is not necessarily the same thing as an exact match. IME the former is more likely to go out of adjustment.

I think that is very patronising. Anyhow, thanks for the 'expert advice.' It’s interesting that you insist on a perfect, exact match when my setup has been working flawlessly with no need for any of the adjustment, across all gears. It seems ‘good enough’ isn’t quite as bad as you’ve made it out to be, at least not in the real world, where it works without constant tweaking. But I guess that’s just part of the charm of having a practical setup over a purely theoretical one.

[Brucey]

I 'insist' on nothing and as I have said repeatedly IME systems that are not an exact match can be more difficult to set up/more likely to go out of adjustment

[scottg]

that you happen to think it is 'good enough' is all well and good, but it is not necessarily the same thing as an exact match. IME the former is more likely to go out of adjustment.

Tolerance stacking can work in your favor, so you get something that is fine, until it isn't.
Ye olde Campaq ergo front shifting was a micro ratchet,
too bad Campag never made a rear version.

[maanderx]

I 'insist' on nothing and as I have said repeatedly IME systems that are not an exact match can be more difficult to set up/more likely to go out of adjustment

Your estimation and 'expert opinion,' despite lacking any real-world testing in this specific case, doesn't align with the actual success I’ve experienced over 20 years. It’s puzzling that you seem determined to dismiss first-hand evidence in favour of theoretical assumptions.

[Cugel]

I 'insist' on nothing and as I have said repeatedly IME systems that are not an exact match can be more difficult to set up/more likely to go out of adjustment

Your estimation and 'expert opinion,' despite lacking any real-world testing in this specific case, doesn't align with the actual success I’ve experienced over 20 years. It’s puzzling that you seem determined to dismiss first-hand evidence in favour of theoretical assumptions.

Humans can get ideological about anything. I once knew a fellow who would get very hot under the collar if he saw anyone eating a pear in what he considered was an incorrect manner. How do you come to have hard & fast beliefs about how to eat a pear!? Gawd knows - but his wee bit of pear-dogma was emblematic of so many attitudes that are desperately seeking certainty, often manufacturing the certainty if the real world doesn't go along, by means of dreamt-up elaborate catechisms tending to dogmas.

Sometimes commercial interests will handily offer up such catechisms for certainty-addicts to employ. Product differentiation and specialisation creates new market opportunities, you know. Whole new "systems" must be bought and paid for!

One of my major hobbies is woodworking. It's astonishing how ideological various aspects of that can get. There are all sorts of fellows who have very long lists of woodworking sins, which they will issue sermons on in John Knox style at every opportunity.

*************
On the other hand (and perhaps because of the deliberate product system efflorescence tendency to change details between systems) Brucey has a point about compatibility-sins often leading to a graunch. One of the joys of life is to overcome such systematisation without the graunch appearing.

I once ran Suntour Superbe derailleurs and indexed bar end gear changers with a Shimano freewheel (all 7-speed) just to be able to use a 15-24 range of cogs that I couldn't find in the Suntour range. The match between indexed changer pull and freewheel cog-gaps wasn't perfect but ordinary riding (with careful shifting) saw no graunch, Come use in a race where fast and furious gear changes, often under pedalling pressure, were not unusual and graunch began to make an appearance, sometimes causing an unwanted gear-jump.

[cycle tramp]

I 'insist' on nothing and as I have said repeatedly IME systems that are not an exact match can be more difficult to set up/more likely to go out of adjustment

Your estimation and 'expert opinion,' despite lacking any real-world testing in this specific case, doesn't align with the actual success I’ve experienced over 20 years. It’s puzzling that you seem determined to dismiss first-hand evidence in favour of theoretical assumptions.

...at which juncture, I'm going to suggest that there is probably a tolerance between the manufacturers specifications, as written, and the end products as they leave the factory. Not enough of a tolerance so that the dérailleurs, sprockets, chain rings , dérailleurs and shifters won't work together, but probably enough of a tolerance to make it possible that dérailleurs, sprockets, chainrings and shifters, can and do work equally well from products offered by different manufacturers on the provision that they are chosen by the builder with sufficient care and attention.

(My own transmission comes from 5 different companies at tge moment, but as its all operated by a friction lever, it doesn't really count)