Brands selling both legal and illegal versions of their bikes

[slowster]

4 out of 5 bikes seized by South Yorkshire Police and shown in this article - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6zp8313wxo are from one such brand, Allegro, and the force commented,

"We have built up our knowledge around these vehicles and the fact we have seized a total of around 55 shows that we won't hesitate to act against riders who are breaking the law and putting other people in danger."

[Vantage]

Shame they don't spend those resources going after dangerous drivers who cause greater harm.

[axel_knutt]

It seems to me a lot of this could be prevented if dealers were legally liable for making sure that all motor vehicles are registered before they're allowed off the premises.

[sizbut]

You either are or should be a journalist given your ability to produce headlines and statements that aren't then backed up by details.

You conflate 4 out of 5 bikes in the photo into 80% of all the other 50 bikes without going via anything like knowledge or evidence. Someone more inclined to have their time wasted by you can work out the chance of that based on a random sample, but we don't even know if it was a random sample.

And you accuse Allegro of deliberately selling illegal bikes without any consideration of possibilities such as a cheap and readily available brand becoming a favourite for after-sale modification.

And you ignore the part of the article detailing why the bikes may be legal but still liable to being seized - e.g. the way it is being used, where it is being used, and the age of the rider.

I'm not saying that there isn't a problem - but its lazy thinking to just falsely accuse the manufacturers.

[stodd]

It seems to me a lot of this could be prevented if dealers were legally liable for making sure that all motor vehicles are registered before they're allowed off the premises.

The point of the pedelec rules is the make it very easy to own and use a low powered electric bike without all the complications of registration, tax, etc; effectively it is legally NOT a motor vehicle. I think it would be a very backward step to require registration of pedelecs.

However, if you mean compulsory registration at point of sale of all electric bikes that do not come under the pedelec regulations that might be a good idea. There would be complications for the (very small number of) people who want to own and use such a bike legally.

[simonineaston]

Shame they don't spend those resources going after dangerous drivers who cause greater harm.

Too right!

[axel_knutt]

The point of the pedelec rules is the make it very easy to own and use a low powered electric bike without all the complications of registration, tax, etc; effectively it is legally NOT a motor vehicle. I think it would be a very backward step to require registration of pedelecs.

EAPCs aren't classed as motor vehicles though.

There would be complications for the (very small number of) people who want to own and use such a bike legally.

There's nothing to stop people using a registered vehicle on private land where it doesn't need registration.

[Bmblbzzz]

South Yorkshire Police said some of the bikes had the potential to reach speeds of 40mph (64km/h).

I've heard from reliable sources that some motor cars have the potential to reach speeds of 70.001mph.

[irc]

Shame they don't spend those resources going after dangerous drivers who cause greater harm.

Or even do both.

[PH]

Shame they don't spend those resources going after dangerous drivers who cause greater harm.

I'm happy for some resources to be used on this, it was the City center team, so probably a couple of police officers and the PCSO's who would have been in the city anyway. A tiny proportion of overall resource on an anti-social behaviour which affects many. Similar operations have recently taken place in Derby and Nottingham. As with motoring crackdowns, these operations can unearth other crimes, fast E-bikes have become a popular tool for bag snatchers and drug distribution. IMO it's a bit late, but better than nothing. One of the reasons people are buying illegal bikes is the slim chance of being caught, so occasional high profile operations might be more of a deterrent than the same resource spread thinner.

[stodd]

There's nothing to stop people using a registered vehicle on private land where it doesn't need registration.

Absolutely. But adding the compulsory registration (at point of sale) on bikes that are not EPACs before the user can get the bike would be a significant complication.

[slowster]

I made the original post because it surprised me a bit that the photograph which South Yorkshire Police had provided to journalists contained manufactured bikes (as opposed to conversions) of almost only a single brand. Maybe it was just chance, but I wondered if there was more to it than that. Maybe that brand is particularly popular in the area, e.g. if they are relatively cheap compared to other brands and/or there are one or more local shops selling that particular brand.

The officer's comment "We have built up our knowledge around these vehicles" is reassuring, but I did wonder if there were so many illegal Allegro bikes being ridden on the road in the area, that that could result in a tendency for the police to target people on that brand of bike, rather than stopping people based on how they were riding, e.g. >15.5mph assisted.

I would not be happy if I had bought a road legal version of one of Allegro's bikes, only to find myself being stopped by police because of the brand name on the down tube, even if the officers were sufficiently knowledgeable to be able confirm from a quick inspection that the bike was legal.

[axel_knutt]

There's nothing to stop people using a registered vehicle on private land where it doesn't need registration.

Absolutely. But adding the compulsory registration (at point of sale) on bikes that are not EPACs before the user can get the bike would be a significant complication.

But I've just said that EAPCs are not classed as motor vehicles, so why did you edit it out so that you could imply that I didn't?

[djnotts]

Easy to see why Allegro "popular". Cheap - and 0% finance.

They make the distinction between legal and not quite clearly. Including:

"By purchasing and using these products, customers acknowledge their responsibility to comply with all applicable laws and regulations. Our company cannot be held liable for misuse or legal consequences resulting from non-compliance."

No more than retailers of shotguns can be held liable for one being sawn down and used to make a bank withdrawal the old-fashioned way!