Online Safety Bill 2022

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by [XAP]Bob »

admin wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:06pm In my opinion the Forum does not pose a risk of online harms, so nothing needs to be changed.

I am unaware of any serious harm being caused by this Forum. If you know of any, please do let me know.
Those two are very different statements, and whilst I have no issue with statement 2 I don't agree with statement 1.

Particularly with DMs being an option (and they should continue to be an option) there is always a risk that people could use the facility for nefarious activities.

I'd agree that the risk is *low*, but not that that risk is zero.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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mjr
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by mjr »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:09pm
admin wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:06pm In my opinion the Forum does not pose a risk of online harms, so nothing needs to be changed.

I am unaware of any serious harm being caused by this Forum. If you know of any, please do let me know.
Those two are very different statements, and whilst I have no issue with statement 2 I don't agree with statement 1.

Particularly with DMs being an option (and they should continue to be an option) there is always a risk that people could use the facility for nefarious activities.

I'd agree that the risk is *low*, but not that that risk is zero.
Amen. I've tried to explain why the forum looks like being "multi-risk" in Ofcom's jargon because as well as DMs, it's got classifieds and profiles and location info and so on, but some of my key questions are going unanswered, so I'll stop for now. Let's see how Ofcom proceeds.

If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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admin
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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[XAP]Bob wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:09pm
admin wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:06pm In my opinion the Forum does not pose a risk of online harms, so nothing needs to be changed.

I am unaware of any serious harm being caused by this Forum. If you know of any, please do let me know.
Those two are very different statements, and whilst I have no issue with statement 2 I don't agree with statement 1.

Particularly with DMs being an option (and they should continue to be an option) there is always a risk that people could use the facility for nefarious activities.

I'd agree that the risk is *low*, but not that that risk is zero.
The question is "how much of a risk, and how much action needs to be taken?". We should know before the end of March.
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admin
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
Don't post private details on a public Forum!

But DO report anything you think might cause online harm, by flagging a post or contacting the Forum admins, moderators, or Cycling UK privately.
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Paulatic
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm
If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
If you are referring to the most recent accusation on CC
The man didn’t like opposing views to his helmet post… if that can be upheld as bullying then we'ed best keep our opinions to ourself.
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cycle tramp
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by cycle tramp »

Paulatic wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 7:06pm
mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm
If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
If you are referring to the most recent accusation on CC
The man didn’t like opposing views to his helmet post… if that can be upheld as bullying then we'ed best keep our opinions to ourself.
..I'm pretty sure that there's a legal definition about what is bullying in that it has to be specific to that person...
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by [XAP]Bob »

admin wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:50pm
mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
Don't post private details on a public Forum!
Like your location being in Lancing, West Sussex ?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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That's public information :)
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mjr
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by mjr »

Paulatic wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 7:06pm
mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm
If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
If you are referring to the most recent accusation on CC
The man didn’t like opposing views to his helmet post… if that can be upheld as bullying then we'ed best keep our opinions to ourself.
That, among them.

We don't know if that's all of it.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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cycle tramp wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 9:14pm ..I'm pretty sure that there's a legal definition about what is bullying in that it has to be specific to that person...
Here is a summary of the offences that are relevant for the Online Safety Act:
Ofcom wrote:The Online Safety Act lists over 130 ‘priority offences’, and tech firms must assess and mitigate the risk of these occurring on their platforms. The priority offences can be split into the following categories:
Terrorism
Harassment, stalking, threats and abuse offences
Coercive and controlling behaviour
Hate offences
Intimate image abuse
Extreme pornography
Child sexual exploitation and abuse
Sexual exploitation of adults
Unlawful immigration
Human trafficking
Fraud and financial offences
Proceeds of crime
Assisting or encouraging suicide
Drugs and psychoactive substances
Weapons offences (knives, firearms, and other weapons)
Foreign interference
Animal welfare
Where the dividing line is between "bullying" and "harassment, stalking, threats and abuse offences" should be fairly obvious, but where there is doubt it would ultimately need to be decided by a judge (on a case-by-case basis).
Carlton green
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by Carlton green »

mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2025, 5:35pm If admin wishes, I'll suggest those bullied off the forum report it (possibly for a second time) but I hesitate to post what details I have.
I’ve not noted them specifically but recall a couple of names who felt pushed off of the forum, that’s life and this place is well moderated by people kind enough to give up their time and roll their sleeves up. Please don’t post what details you have but please do give them to the Moderation and Admin’ Team.

I’m shocked to hear that the Bill might result in this forum closing. That - if it happens - would be a completely stupid and socially damaging result; this place has taught me - and doubtless many others too - so much of value.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by mattheus »

Many years ago, someone left a forum when I asked "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
A few people politely suggested this is a phrase that not everyone is familiar with, but generally the forum went on with its business without further comment or prosecutions ...
Carlton green
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by Carlton green »

mattheus wrote: 8 Jan 2025, 10:57am Many years ago, someone left a forum when I asked "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
A few people politely suggested this is a phrase that not everyone is familiar with, but generally the forum went on with its business without further comment or prosecutions ...
‘Have you stopped beating your wife’ is a bit of a cutting comment that some would brush aside whilst others might get upset about. In life, whether on-line or in real life, it’s helpful to develop a bit of a thick skin. My rule of thumb - which possibly I break from time to time - is never to say anything on-line that I wouldn’t say face to face to someone bigger than myself. Of course, there’s always the case that the intended meaning of the message sent is very different from the interpreted meaning of the message received; I’m not so sure what the way around that problem is.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
drossall
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

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I would understand it to mean that the person had just asked a loaded question, and not to imply that that person were even married.

It's well-known as the archetype of a loaded question. Claiming that I have asked one is not necessarily all that cutting?
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Re: Online Safety Bill 2022

Post by mjr »

admin has posted their assessment at viewtopic.php?p=1889514#p1889514 and I've spotted a familiar name pop up during discussions elsewhere. 👍

I agree with most of the answers and some of the risk assessments, but it looks partially incorrect in its answer to question 5 (profiles include location information) and the Step 2 assessments seems to ignore that the Private Message system could be used for various things. I don't think the moderators currently check any PMs if no-one involved in the chat clicks Report, do they? One would expect that the plotters of a terrorist attack are unlikely to Report their conspiratorial discussions...

"Firearms, knives and other weapons" cites as evidence that there's been "18 years of use without such content being posted, as far as moderators have noticed" whereas I remember plenty of discussion of knives over the years (not always for food!), several about how to get them past security checks and at least one moderator involved! Even if they've never been sold openly on the site, discussing how to avoid border security still touches one of the priority offences in the guidance, as well as the encouraging and aiding offences, doesn't it? There's also been some discussion of carrying guns on tour, not all of which has been deleted. I don't think the risk of further such material being posted is negligible in discussions of cycle touring, often solo.

And for animal cruelty, isn't the famous advice from Ballantine's bike book a problem? In the words of Ofcom, "where a user publishes content showing, describing or discussing cruelty to animals in order to encourage, assist or conspire to commit acts of animal cruelty, this would create priority illegal content under the Act. This is because encouragement, assistance and conspiracy to commit a priority offence are each priority offences in their own right." (from https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/res ... -risks.pdf ) We could argue that it's sometimes justified as self-defence, but it is also pretty cruel and the instructions definitely assist, so this type of content has also definitely been posted (and possibly more than just the copy I linked), contrary to the risk assessment "evidence".

This does make me wonder how good the records of content removed by the moderators is, as well as that reported but left visible.

The code measures are described as "Implemented" but the "Reports" section of viewtopic.php?t=3661 doesn't appear to have been updated to cover how non-registered users may report illegal content, nor have the Terms linked from every page been updated yet.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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