Are potential contributors to this forum afraid that their views are unacceptable?

[Nearholmer]

and suggests (or the writer of the article suggests) that this was due to the students being fearful of expressing unpopular opinions

One very simple explanation might be that the rest of the students simply didn’t hold the opinions that this particular student expected/wanted them to voice.

A recurring theme in these “chuntering under the breath about being silenced by wokeness” things, and I sense it might even apply to this rather strange thread, is that the chunterer is burning to say something that they know will prove controversial, censors themselves because they haven’t got either the courage or the speaking skills to come out with it, then assumes that others are thinking the same thoughts as them, and being prevented from expressing them, when in fact they aren’t.

Truth is, it does take a bit of courage to come out with opinions, especially in an environment like a uni, where you’re surrounded by whip-crack smart, very articulate people, many of them at a stage in life where they haven’t had the corners worn off them by life-experience, so tend to be a bit purist/theoretical in their thinking. Another truth is that that’s part of why you go there, to expose yourself to different views/perspectives, learn how to debate both peacefully and skilfully, to have the corners knocked off your own naivety, so you can expect to get “beaten up” a bit, and if you aren’t up for taking a few flesh wounds in debate, you’re not going to do very well.

Personally, I didn’t go to uni while young and callow, and when I did go it was to study engineering, which isn’t a subject where any of this applies, but by golly did I get embroiled in some socio-political arguments at work and in my free time, and if anyone thinks political arguments are robust in a uni, they would have got a real shock arguing with a load of guys “on the tools” in 1970s South London!

[[XAP]Bob]

I'll acknowledge the problems associated with immigration that this country faces

Be interested to hear what you and the OP think those are.

Happy to oblige. One of the key reasons we've had Brexit, riots around the UK, far right parties winning elections around Europe and a second Trump presidency is that the right wing have weaponised immigration and used it to persuade the masses to vote for things that will harm them and feather the beds of the elites.

If you're living in a poor area, on a limited income, surrounded by homelessness and empty shops, unable to get access to medical care, seeing the police force struggling etc, you're an easy target for anyone who wants to gaslight you with easy lies, and get you to ignore the complicated truths. The easy lie is that your current predicament is simply down to the foreigners that have increased as a proportion of your local community, and who your facebook/twitter account is constantly telling you are lazy, feckless and evil. The complicated truth is that (1) we have been, and continue to be, complicit in the world events that have caused mass migration and (2) in order to sort out the undisputable decline in public services, we need long-term solutions, such as progressive taxation and enforcement against private corporations robbing the British public blind for services which would be better provided by the state. However, the simple lies will continue to win out, as evidenced by people convinced that their biggest enemy is 'woke' - whatever that means.

"the right wing have weaponised immigration"

Right, so the issue isn't actually immigration, it's just the scapegoat people are convinced is the simple answer to all the complex problems in the country caused by other things.

I was actually looking for issues with immigration, rather than issues in our corrupt media.

[DropperPost]

Right, so the issue isn't actually immigration, it's just the scapegoat people are convinced is the simple answer to all the complex problems in the country caused by other things.

Correct. But there are problems which, using the words in my first post, are associated with immigration, and we ignore these at our peril. Large numbers of people with insufficient housing, medical services, social services etc. are fertile ground for the far right. We can't pretend these problems don't exist or we get Brexit, Trump, Le Pen etc. Instead we have to acknowledge the very difficult lives people are living but go on the attack against the spivs and oligarchs who are the real reason behind our country's penury and who are currently reshaping the political world with a social media whispering campaign which vilifies immigrants to camouflage their economic crimes which are creating ever-wider economic inequality.

[mattheus]

IMHO The non-cycling subject matter on this forum has fallen by the wayside.

Good!

I lose track of the number of times I've seen people put off from reading or contributing to this (excellent) cycling forum because it can appear so hostile on first glance. If you come to ask a question about fixing your bike or touring or whatever, but your first glance at "Active topics" shows Trump and Southport and so on, you'd be forgiven for thinking "this forum isn't for me" and going elsewhere.

How do you "see" this happening?!?
[I'm not denying it does, to be clear ... ]

[Richard Fairhurst]

Comments elsewhere online - I've seen this forum described as "scary" and such. I don't think it is but I can understand how some newcomers might get that impression!

[the snail]

Comments elsewhere online - I've seen this forum described as "scary" and such. I don't think it is but I can understand how some newcomers might get that impression!

Really? This forum is generally very well-behaved and moderated IME. If anyone finds political stuff upsetting, surely they can simply avoid reading them, or avoid the tea room altogether and stick to the cycling stuff? I wonder if the OP's issue is that they don't like being disagreed with, and want an echo chamber where everyone reinforces their viewpoint.

[mjr]

Right, so the issue isn't actually immigration, it's just the scapegoat people are convinced is the simple answer to all the complex problems in the country caused by other things.

Correct. But there are problems which, using the words in my first post, are associated with immigration, and we ignore these at our peril. Large numbers of people with insufficient housing, medical services, social services etc. are fertile ground for the far right. We can't pretend these problems don't exist or we get Brexit, Trump, Le Pen etc.

Those are not problems associated with immigration. Those are problems blamed on immigration by people like Trump who don't want the real causes addressed because they or their friends profit from them.

[geocycle]

IMHO The non-cycling subject matter on this forum has fallen by the wayside.

Good!

I lose track of the number of times I've seen people put off from reading or contributing to this (excellent) cycling forum because it can appear so hostile on first glance. If you come to ask a question about fixing your bike or touring or whatever, but your first glance at "Active topics" shows Trump and Southport and so on, you'd be forgiven for thinking "this forum isn't for me" and going elsewhere.

Quite a lot of forums tuck the argumentative off-topic stuff away out of view to avoid this problem. CycleChat, for example, hives it off to a separate subdomain that doesn't show up on the default view. RailUK mutes it from the "New posts" view by default. SABRE has something similar. I don't know if phpBB supports this, but I'd love to see the same happen here.

Completely agree, I’ve had enough of these political threads and am rapidly losing interest in the forum. Can we hide the ‘Tea Shop’ from the new posts view?

[Paulatic]

Anyway I have been on here for some time now (no idea how long)

Since 13th February 2015
HTH

[[XAP]Bob]

Right, so the issue isn't actually immigration, it's just the scapegoat people are convinced is the simple answer to all the complex problems in the country caused by other things.

Correct. But there are problems which, using the words in my first post, are associated with immigration, and we ignore these at our peril. Large numbers of people with insufficient housing, medical services, social services etc. are fertile ground for the far right. We can't pretend these problems don't exist or we get Brexit, Trump, Le Pen etc.

Those are not problems associated with immigration. Those are problems blamed on immigration by people like Trump who don't want the real causes addressed because they or their friends profit from them.

They're associated because populist gobby prats keep telling people they're associated.
That doesn't make them problems with immigration, but with our media.

[Vantage]

This forum due it's association with cycling UK is I'm sorry to say, repressed.
I understand that there must be rules regarding bad language etc in order to be acceptable to young children but those rules and the resulting moderation make the whole forum very 'old man with a stiff upper lip'.
Go into any other cycling forum or most forums in general and there is an air of easy going and friendly. The members mostly get along and most are happy to wind each other up and get up to some degree of mischief.
Group rides are organised frequently by members in both yacf and cyclechat. Not so here.
We can't even have funny thread titles because they get edited to better reflect what the topic is about! Even the forum design is bland. It's practically the BBC.
There's a wealth of knowledge here that is almost unmatched which is a good thing but, for sheer entertainment and a fun time, cyclechat could teach this place a thing or two.

[Nearholmer]

There’s some truth in that.

The only other cycling e-group that I participate in is the Facebook group ‘Gravel Bikes UK’ (cue complaints about the term “gravel bike”), which is very well moderated (yes, there are moderated spaces on Facebook), with a fully enforced, zero tolerance ban on politics, religion, sexism, outright taunting etc, and which is cheerful, humorous, doesn’t take itself, or cycling, too seriously, and exudes an air of fun - you can tell in an instant that the members really enjoy their hobby.

It isn’t as expert as here when it comes to “bike tech”, although there are some pretty smart cookies but the fact that everyone uses photos and diagrams to help explain things makes it a whole lot more directly useful, the constant stream of really good ride photos helps motivation, and I strongly believe that part of its “secret” is that it has a very wide demographic, from teenage newbies to grizzled veterans, both men and women.

I certainly wouldn’t knock the moderation here, and the knowledge is immense, but the platform it runs on is very outdated, which clearly makes it impossible to achieve modern levels of user-friendliness, and the apparently (so far as I can discern) narrow demographic is a problem. Maybe one issue is that it attempts to be nearly-all-inclusive when it comes to types of cycling, which is a heck of a brief in such a wide field. The groups that flourish seem to be more tightly focused.

[pwa]

Are you afraid that your views are unacceptable?

May be: Fear of expressing views often arises when individuals anticipate judgment or hostility, especially from those who may not fully understand or appreciate the context of differing opinions. This could be linked to a lack of open-mindedness or limited perspectives among certain individuals. However, creating a forum culture that values respectful dialogue and encourages diverse viewpoints can help mitigate these concerns. It's important to remind contributors that their perspectives are valuable and that differences can enrich the conversation.

I agree.

[Freeweel]

I wear a helmet when cycling, because I value my brain.

I also wear underpants beneath my cycling shorts, because... well, yes.

And I think that going downhill on a bike at anything over 40mph is lunacy, because I live in Devon, where tractors abound and A&E is busy.

All these things may be unacceptable to others and I know that there are different views, which I respect. But no, I'm not afraid to post them. Thanks not least to the moderators, this feels like a supportive and evidence-based community, which is rare on today's web. Introducing needless division would diminish that. I'm very much unsure why I'd post my views on immigration, Musk or gender politics. Whatever they are, they don't seem to be very cycle-relevant, and it's the cycle advice that I come here for.

Hope that helps.

[multitool]

I'm not sure what Philip Benstead's motives are in starting this thread or what he hopes to learn from it.

What is it that he wants to say that he feels he can't, and why does he feel certain views should be exempt from criticism?

The self-styled free speech warriors seem to want to say unpleasant and divisive things about certain groups in society, usually on the basis of skin colour, religion, gender identity or sexuality, without being criticised for it. When they are met with disagreement they become incredibly thin-skinned.

These people seem to have coalesced around the more extreme end of right-wing political thought and are feeling emboldened by the election of Trump. Trump, under the guise of 'free speech', is actively promoting divisive speech because he has realised that identity politics of the white-supremacist variety provides a grievance-based route to power. I note that Meta is the latest huge media corporation to suck at his teat, not only cancelling DEI initiatives, but also removing their fact-checking processes. Whilst this is presented as a more towards freer speech it is really intended to allow Trump and his proxies to promote lies that promote the interests of his billionaire backers. Expect to see climate change denial go into hyperdrive.

Threads like this are, I suspect, just part of that movement.