UK Politics

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jgurney
Posts: 1257
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

Re: UK Politics

Post by jgurney »

jgurney wrote: 6 Jan 2025, 1:26pm
Nearholmer wrote: 6 Jan 2025, 10:31am As for Reform’s current position, my instinct is that it is inflated .....
[6th Jan]
.... For Reform to come to power they would need least 326 MP’s elected. Achieving that would realistically mean promoting significantly more serious candidates, I'd say in at least 450 constituencies to have a good chance of winning 326. This would require finding 450+ seriously electable candidates, who have the skills and abilities necessary to be effective MP’s and are able to appeal to the broad electorate, not just Reform's core followers. ..... I wonder whether Reform actually have 450 seriously electable people available?
10th Jan
"Ten Reform UK councillors in Derbyshire say they have resigned in protest over Nigel Farage's leadership.
The group said Reform was being run in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June
".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lz8xn8zd8o

If they can't keep their councillors, have they much hope of assembling 400+ credible Parliamentary candidates?
pete75
Posts: 16656
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

jgurney wrote: 11 Jan 2025, 11:54pm
jgurney wrote: 6 Jan 2025, 1:26pm
Nearholmer wrote: 6 Jan 2025, 10:31am As for Reform’s current position, my instinct is that it is inflated .....
[6th Jan]
.... For Reform to come to power they would need least 326 MP’s elected. Achieving that would realistically mean promoting significantly more serious candidates, I'd say in at least 450 constituencies to have a good chance of winning 326. This would require finding 450+ seriously electable candidates, who have the skills and abilities necessary to be effective MP’s and are able to appeal to the broad electorate, not just Reform's core followers. ..... I wonder whether Reform actually have 450 seriously electable people available?
10th Jan
"Ten Reform UK councillors in Derbyshire say they have resigned in protest over Nigel Farage's leadership.
The group said Reform was being run in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June
".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lz8xn8zd8o

If they can't keep their councillors, have they much hope of assembling 400+ credible Parliamentary candidates?
And your point is? " Twenty councillors have quit Labour in protest at the party's direction under Sir Keir Starmer."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewxrzq0489o
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
jgurney
Posts: 1257
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

Re: UK Politics

Post by jgurney »

pete75 wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 7:09pm
jgurney wrote: 11 Jan 2025, 11:54pm ..... I wonder whether Reform actually have 450 seriously electable people available?

10th Jan
"Ten Reform UK councillors in Derbyshire say they have resigned in protest over Nigel Farage's leadership.
The group said Reform was being run in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June
".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lz8xn8zd8o

If they can't keep their councillors, have they much hope of assembling 400+ credible
And your point is? " Twenty councillors have quit Labour in protest at the party's direction under Sir Keir Starmer."
It is exactly as I stated - I am dubious that Reform can produce enough electable candidates to meet their ambitions.
The Labour party has a long history of being able to find all the candidates they need. Reform has yet to demonstrate the same capacity.
pete75
Posts: 16656
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

jgurney wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 8:47pm
pete75 wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 7:09pm
jgurney wrote: 11 Jan 2025, 11:54pm ..... I wonder whether Reform actually have 450 seriously electable people available?

10th Jan
"Ten Reform UK councillors in Derbyshire say they have resigned in protest over Nigel Farage's leadership.
The group said Reform was being run in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June
".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0lz8xn8zd8o

If they can't keep their councillors, have they much hope of assembling 400+ credible
And your point is? " Twenty councillors have quit Labour in protest at the party's direction under Sir Keir Starmer."
It is exactly as I stated - I am dubious that Reform can produce enough electable candidates to meet their ambitions.
The Labour party has a long history of being able to find all the candidates they need. Reform has yet to demonstrate the same capacity.

What you stated was "If they can't keep their councillors, have they much hope of assembling 400+ credible". If that logic holds true for Reform then it holds true for any other party. Personally I don't think it does and Reform will have no problem finding enough candidates to win a good number of seats. Tory/Reform coalition after the next GE.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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mjr
Posts: 20746
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
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Re: UK Politics

Post by mjr »

jgurney wrote: 11 Jan 2025, 11:54pm
10th Jan
"Ten Reform UK councillors in Derbyshire say they have resigned in protest over Nigel Farage's leadership.
The group said Reform was being run in an "increasingly autocratic manner" and "has lost its sense of direction" since Farage took over as leader last June
".
If they are against autocracy, what were they doing in Reform? The name of the party is literally a reference to reforming our democracy into a Mussolini-style corporate autocracy!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
djnotts
Posts: 3579
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

Artificial intelligence anyone?

"The government is to set out plans to use artificial intelligence (AI) across the UK to boost growth and deliver public services more efficiently.

The AI Opportunities Action Plan being announced on Monday will be backed by leading tech firms, which are said to have committed £14bn towards various projects, creating 13,250 jobs.

It includes plans for growth zones where development will be focused, and the technology will be used to help tackle issues such as potholes.

"I want to make sure that it benefits everyone from every background, that it benefits every community, from every part of the UK," Science and Technology Secretary Peter Kyle told the BBC." (BBC News)

I remember when " computers" were going to bring all such improvements and more, according to senior management, private and public, who didn't understand what "computers" did. AI is the new panacea.

If only there were any REAL intelligence at work ......
reohn2
Posts: 45883
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by reohn2 »

Post Office debacle anyone?
AI,what could possibly go wrong.........
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
djnotts
Posts: 3579
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

reohn2 wrote: 13 Jan 2025, 9:36am Post Office debacle anyone?
AI,what could possibly go wrong.........
That which could will!!

I note that all NHS data to be released.....but hey potholes will be found so that's all good.
pete75
Posts: 16656
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

djnotts wrote: 13 Jan 2025, 8:36am Artificial intelligence anyone?

"The government is to set out plans to use artificial intelligence (AI) across the UK to boost growth and deliver public services more efficiently.

The AI Opportunities Action Plan being announced on Monday will be backed by leading tech firms, which are said to have committed £14bn towards various projects, creating 13,250 jobs.

It includes plans for growth zones where development will be focused, and the technology will be used to help tackle issues such as potholes.

"I want to make sure that it benefits everyone from every background, that it benefits every community, from every part of the UK," Science and Technology Secretary Peter Kyle told the BBC." (BBC News)

I remember when " computers" were going to bring all such improvements and more, according to senior management, private and public, who didn't understand what "computers" did. AI is the new panacea.

If only there were any REAL intelligence at work ......
I can just about remember when nuclear generated electricity was going to be too cheap to meter.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
jgurney
Posts: 1257
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

Re: UK Politics

Post by jgurney »

pete75 wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 9:15pm
jgurney wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 8:47pm
pete75 wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 7:09pm

And your point is? " Twenty councillors have quit Labour in protest at the party's direction under Sir Keir Starmer."
It is exactly as I stated - I am dubious that Reform can produce enough electable candidates to meet their ambitions.
The Labour party has a long history of being able to find all the candidates they need. Reform has yet to demonstrate the same capacity.

..... If that logic holds true for Reform then it holds true for any other party.
Logic does not really dictate that a new party with 5 MP's to date will match the performance of long-established parties with a history of forming governments when it comes to fielding electable candidates. (I agree that it could and might happen, but so far neither evidence nor logic demonstrate that it will). Both Labour and Conservative parties have lost councillors often enough in the past without it affecting their ability to win elections. Reform have not yet demonstrated the same resilience.
djnotts
Posts: 3579
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

Just got to laugh at the irony of some job matches...

"For all of the complexities and subtleties of this story, and there are plenty, the inescapable crux of it was something even the most polished public relations executive would struggle to add much gloss to.

The minister responsible for the government's anti-corruption drive was named in a corruption investigation.

Awkward.
.........................
The investigation, by Bangladesh's Anti-Corruption Commission, is looking into claims Tulip Siddiq's family embezzled up to £3.9bn." (BBC News)

Perhaps she should have been given MAFF (or whatever it's called now)?
Nearholmer
Posts: 5651
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: UK Politics

Post by Nearholmer »

I’d wait to see what that turns-up in the long run, because it’s mired in the all round dirty politics of Bangladesh, and she may have:

- benefitted knowingly from corruption;

- benefitted unknowingly from corruption due to naivety;

- benefitted from corruption not knowingly, but by deliberately turning a blind eye;

- benefitted from corruption by way of being deliberately deceived;

- not benefitted from corruption;

- several other possibilities, including that there was actually no corruption from which to benefit, and that what she’s caught in is the smearing of her aunt.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 15 Jan 2025, 10:32am, edited 2 times in total.
pete75
Posts: 16656
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

Nearholmer wrote: 15 Jan 2025, 8:49am I’d wait to see what that turns-up in the long run, because it’s mired in the all round dirty politics of Bangladesh, and she may have:

- benefitted knowingly from corruption;

- benefitted unknowingly from corruption due to naivety;

- benefitted from corruption not knowingly, but by deliberately turning a blind eye;

- not benefitted from corruption;

- several other possibilities, including that there was actually no corruption from which to benefit, and that what she’s caught in is the smearing of her aunt.
From the Independent's reader comments pages on the affair.

"Equivalence (you won't find in the Tory press): case a) Minister found guilty by Standards Advisor of bullying civil servants, PM ignores report, Minister remains in office, Standards Advisor resigns; case b) Minister cleared by Standards Advisor who nonetheless questions some aspects of her handling of her affairs, Minister resigns the same day, PM accepts resignation. Same country, different Govts, two completely opposite conceptions of propriety. You won't read that in the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, Times or Spectator."
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
Posts: 16656
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

jgurney wrote: 13 Jan 2025, 11:28am
pete75 wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 9:15pm
jgurney wrote: 12 Jan 2025, 8:47pm

It is exactly as I stated - I am dubious that Reform can produce enough electable candidates to meet their ambitions.
The Labour party has a long history of being able to find all the candidates they need. Reform has yet to demonstrate the same capacity.

..... If that logic holds true for Reform then it holds true for any other party.
Logic does not really dictate that a new party with 5 MP's to date will match the performance of long-established parties with a history of forming governments when it comes to fielding electable candidates. (I agree that it could and might happen, but so far neither evidence nor logic demonstrate that it will). Both Labour and Conservative parties have lost councillors often enough in the past without it affecting their ability to win elections. Reform have not yet demonstrated the same resilience.
There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

If your logic held true then the Labour party would never have risen to challenge the Conservatives and Liberals and end up replacing the latter as a party of government. Look at Italy or France, Meroni and Macron's parties came from nowhere in just a few years to win power.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
djnotts
Posts: 3579
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

A worthy successor to Tulip, one Emma Rrynolds.

"Her replacement as Economic Secretary to the Treasury, Emma Reynolds, returned to Parliament in July after a four and a half year break, during which time she was the chief lobbyist for TheCityUK, which represents leading UK banks.

According to Bloomberg, external, Reynolds was involved in lobbying the then Conservative government not to include China in the "enhanced tier" of the Foreign Influence Registration Scheme."

That such a person could even be accepted as a Labour Party member tells one that for Starmer even to use the "Labour" name is a travesty.
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