Heat in the home

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My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
9
13%
below 18
23
34%
18-20
27
40%
21-22
3
4%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
4%
 
Total votes: 67

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[XAP]Bob
Posts: 20276
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Biospace wrote: 13 Jan 2025, 6:34pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 13 Jan 2025, 1:00pm There are a number of perverse market conditions at the moment, which we could, and should remove/rework to give everyone cheaper and more intelligent supply, as well as incentivise transitioning away from fossil fuel use as much as possible.
Is there much pressure to rebalance these conditions, or are too many political party donors benefitting from the high bills?
There is a reasonable amount of pressure - because some of the basic things that would help are pretty easy to legislate, and would result in everyone having lower bills.

The simplest thing would be to regionalise energy pricing - it's a purely administrative limitation, and it's hurting every region in the country. Greg Jackson states Scotland would end up with the cheapest power in Europe, and every other region would have cheaper energy as well.

Shifting levies onto gas rather than electricity would be a different change, but it is still purely administrative - it would rebalance the incentives to move people away from fossil fuels. At the moment the incentives are disproportionally applied to electricity, which artificially incentivises remaining on gas.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Biospace
Posts: 3030
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

Presumably vested interests are delaying changes, then. I’m not at all convinced energy prices will fall so much in Britain no matter how much change there is in proving mechanisms - the private sector has too many fingers in the pie.

I was warned at some point by 2030 prices would have tripled, disconnecting from the grid is now pretty much a certainty over the next 15 years, I foresee further well above inflation rises yet to come.
axel_knutt
Posts: 3631
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by axel_knutt »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 9:55am There is a reasonable amount of pressure - because some of the basic things that would help are pretty easy to legislate, and would result in everyone having lower bills.
I don't see that as desirable at all, what's needed is some form of progressive charging system so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, and prohibitively expensive to use more.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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[XAP]Bob
Posts: 20276
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by [XAP]Bob »

axel_knutt wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 1:22pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 9:55am There is a reasonable amount of pressure - because some of the basic things that would help are pretty easy to legislate, and would result in everyone having lower bills.
I don't see that as desirable at all, what's needed is some form of progressive charging system so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, and prohibitively expensive to use more.
Politically it's definitely a pressure.
Progressive charging would help a different target, but it's still a "capital investment wins" scenario, which doesn't actually help the least well off.

You absolutely don't want to make it more expensive to use more electricity "because you're using more" without *what* you're using it for being taken into account... there is a difference between someone using electricity as a replacement for gas/petrol/diesel and someone using electricity for whatever it is you consider profligate.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
axel_knutt
Posts: 3631
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by axel_knutt »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 4:02pm
axel_knutt wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 1:22pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 9:55am There is a reasonable amount of pressure - because some of the basic things that would help are pretty easy to legislate, and would result in everyone having lower bills.
I don't see that as desirable at all, what's needed is some form of progressive charging system so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, and prohibitively expensive to use more.
Politically it's definitely a pressure.
Progressive charging would help a different target, but it's still a "capital investment wins" scenario, which doesn't actually help the least well off.

You absolutely don't want to make it more expensive to use more electricity "because you're using more" without *what* you're using it for being taken into account... there is a difference between someone using electricity as a replacement for gas/petrol/diesel and someone using electricity for whatever it is you consider profligate.
If you measure total energy consumption it will go down when switching from a boiler to a heat pump even if electricity goes up, and if you don't whittle fuel bills down to the absolute minimum there'll be money to subsidise capital investment in insulation. If people choose to use their allowance on fairy lights draped around the house rather than heating, they're free to do so but won't have much room to complain they're cold.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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[XAP]Bob
Posts: 20276
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by [XAP]Bob »

axel_knutt wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 5:49pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 4:02pm
axel_knutt wrote: 14 Jan 2025, 1:22pm

I don't see that as desirable at all, what's needed is some form of progressive charging system so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, and prohibitively expensive to use more.
Politically it's definitely a pressure.
Progressive charging would help a different target, but it's still a "capital investment wins" scenario, which doesn't actually help the least well off.

You absolutely don't want to make it more expensive to use more electricity "because you're using more" without *what* you're using it for being taken into account... there is a difference between someone using electricity as a replacement for gas/petrol/diesel and someone using electricity for whatever it is you consider profligate.
If you measure total energy consumption it will go down when switching from a boiler to a heat pump even if electricity goes up, and if you don't whittle fuel bills down to the absolute minimum there'll be money to subsidise capital investment in insulation. If people choose to use their allowance on fairy lights draped around the house rather than heating, they're free to do so but won't have much room to complain they're cold.
Fairy lights vs heating... really?

Do you have any idea how much energy different things need?
A set of fairy lights might be 8w (that's what my Christmas lights use), which won't even make a snippet of a dent in any heating load.


As to "whittling fuel down to a minimum to afford insulation"... that's more #vimesboots thinking I'm afraid...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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