UK Politics

[cycle tramp]

..... If that logic holds true for Reform then it holds true for any other party.

Logic does not really dictate that a new party with 5 MP's to date will match the performance of long-established parties with a history of forming governments when it comes to fielding electable candidates. (I agree that it could and might happen, but so far neither evidence nor logic demonstrate that it will). Both Labour and Conservative parties have lost councillors often enough in the past without it affecting their ability to win elections. Reform have not yet demonstrated the same resilience.

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

[Nearholmer]

^^^

The backlash against evolving to the next stage societally is very, very strong though, and has friends in very, very high places, so this very definitely ain’t going to be easy, and it could go either way, at least in the medium term.

[cycle tramp]

^^^

The backlash against evolving to the next stage societally is very, very strong though, and has friends in very, very high places, so this very definitely ain’t going to be easy, and it could go either way, at least in the medium term.

Quite... however, the alternative is that society becomes a place where stories such as this become an everyday occurance... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9w5rkzxjl4o
...all of the right wing's fear and hatred bottled into a teenager.

[pete75]

Logic does not really dictate that a new party with 5 MP's to date will match the performance of long-established parties with a history of forming governments when it comes to fielding electable candidates. (I agree that it could and might happen, but so far neither evidence nor logic demonstrate that it will). Both Labour and Conservative parties have lost councillors often enough in the past without it affecting their ability to win elections. Reform have not yet demonstrated the same resilience.

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

More wishful thinking.

[cycle tramp]

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

More wishful thinking.

I don't think it is. Ultimately this is the result of the poisonous rhetoric espoused by tHe far right... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vddrjjgr0o.amp
..and quite rightly it has appalled people. People have rejected societies which are based on control and brutality in the past and will do so again. Humanity is a social animal - its imbedded in our genetics from the time that we were primates, and we acknowledge that we are stronger and better protected when we are part of something larger than ourselves. Which is society - and it falls to each of us to work towards building that society and making a choice between fear and hate or education and friendship.
Evil sows the seeds of its own destruction- which is a polite way of pointing out that if society does produce more people who think like the person in the news article, then society won't be around for very long

[Geoff_F]

Logic does not really dictate that a new party with 5 MP's to date will match the performance of long-established parties with a history of forming governments when it comes to fielding electable candidates. (I agree that it could and might happen, but so far neither evidence nor logic demonstrate that it will). Both Labour and Conservative parties have lost councillors often enough in the past without it affecting their ability to win elections. Reform have not yet demonstrated the same resilience.

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

An individual may, for different, deep seated psychological reasons, hate themselves and pine for extinction but to wish the same on one's own people is taking out-group preference to the extreme. Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps? That is the logical end point for this type of thinking. Will you volunteer to be first?

[Nearholmer]

Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps?

Someone’s been swallowing too much far-right ideology, and got a “great replacement” mindset lodged in their brain, by the sounds of it.

Where else would they get the idea that society evolving to a different place involves mass slaughter of one group of people?

Society in Britain/UK has evolved multiple times in multiple ways over, say, the past 250 years; it’s always evolving, and it always has been. The idea that change should somehow be replaced by permanent stasis in a sort of 1957 Theme Park is just plain weird, it can’t be, and IMO it very definitely shouldn’t be.

[Geoff_F]

Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps?

Someone’s been swallowing too much far-right ideology, and got a “great replacement” mindset lodged in their brain, by the sounds of it.

Where else would they get the idea that society evolving to a different place involves mass slaughter of one group of people?

Society in Britain/UK has evolved multiple times in multiple ways over, say, the past 250 years; it’s always evolving, and it always has been. The idea that change should somehow be replaced by permanent stasis in a sort of 1957 Theme Park is just plain weird, it can’t be, and IMO it very definitely shouldn’t be.

Moderator note - post removed for breach of the Forum Guidelines - viewtopic.php?t=3661.

[Nearholmer]

I’m suspecting that you have internalised far-right “great replacement” propaganda; I thought I’d made that clear.

If you haven’t, I’m at a loss to understand how you could think that the evolution of society could involve slaughtering all us English-born people. Maybe you could explain.

[roubaixtuesday]

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

An individual may, for different, deep seated psychological reasons, hate themselves and pine for extinction but to wish the same on one's own people is taking out-group preference to the extreme. Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps? That is the logical end point for this type of thinking. Will you volunteer to be first?

This is a very strange post indeed!

[cycle tramp]

There's a lot of wishful thinking that Reform will just go away, it won't. The mood in the country is changing. I know lifelong Tories who are now supporting Reform - not the Tuppeny Tory type that voted UKIP but traditional, wealthy rural conservatives

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

An individual may, for different, deep seated psychological reasons, hate themselves and pine for extinction but to wish the same on one's own people is taking out-group preference to the extreme. Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps? That is the logical end point for this type of thinking. Will you volunteer to be first?

What a very strange thing to write. I have never sought to kill any 'native' English (or for that matter Welsh, Scottish, Cornish, nor any other white European person) indeed, I don't really understand how it was even infered.
The angry white man appears to have been in control since the Romans, and to be fair, we could have done alot better. Its time to let others have a say, and to do so without fear.

[Geoff_F]

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.

An individual may, for different, deep seated psychological reasons, hate themselves and pine for extinction but to wish the same on one's own people is taking out-group preference to the extreme. Does the Let's hit the 'evolve society' button mean killing all the native English people in death camps? That is the logical end point for this type of thinking. Will you volunteer to be first?

What a very strange thing to write. I have never sought to kill any 'native' English (or for that matter Welsh, Scottish, Cornish, nor any other white European person) indeed, I don't really understand how it was even infered.
The angry white man appears to have been in control since the Romans, and to be fair, we could have doe alot better. Its time to let others have a say, and to do so without fear.

Moderator note - post removed for breach of the Forum Guidelines - viewtopic.php?t=3661.

[cycle tramp]

People may ask 'gee? You're an angry white man, too... do you really hate yourself that much much?"
To which the answer is no, but I recognise those points in my life where I could have done better, where i should have taken advice from women, where I should have reacted on a less judgemental way, where I might have had the opportunity to improve other people's lives, as well as my own. And that perhaps my own life might be better for it..
If anyone's been a student of history, then they'll know that the same could have been said about different points in history, where its been clear the angry white man was in charge, events like the witch trials, to the involvement of Shell petroleum in south Africa.
These points in history have passed, they've gone. But it's important we recognise them, because we don't want to repeat that. And perhaps one of the steps we can take towards 'not doing it again' is to get other view points, from people who aren't angry white men...

[Nearholmer]

The thing that seems wrong with your thesis to me a the word “white”, in that men of all sorts of hues have gone on destructive power trips at various times in various places throughout history.

[cycle tramp]

The thing that seems wrong with your thesis to me a the word “white”, in that men of all sorts of hues have gone on destructive power trips at various times in various places throughout history.

I think that may be because my history education has manly focused around Europe, so that's King Richard 1st, King Edward, Thomas de Torquemanda, Matthew Hopkins, Adolf Hilter... but yes, other non-European examples would be Pol Pot and if you read the amnesty reports perhaps Xi Jinping...
..so, yeah, I take your point that being angry and male is an equal opportunities post. It's just, personally I can remember more of those who happen to be European.