A.i in public services

[cycle tramp]

The example of the drain locally, the cited link about "Pothole Tours" in East Wales( clearly partly caused simply by poor culvert/drain maintenance, see pics), are just places where AI is of no use.

Which is kinda ironic, because the BBC recently aired this item https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... jw3w1o.amp
It's A.i. which detects potholes. For those who don't know, road engineers drive routes to inspect the roads. When they do find a pothole, they have to stop measure it, and record it as a work item... This slows up their journey and can put them at risk of being hit by passing traffic....
..this bit of kit measures the potholes dimensions as the car is being driven and records it automatically .. basically it means road traffic engineers can inspect more roads in the same amount of time...

[PDQ Mobile]

The example of the drain locally, the cited link about "Pothole Tours" in East Wales( clearly partly caused simply by poor culvert/drain maintenance, see pics), are just places where AI is of no use.

Which is kinda ironic, because the BBC recently aired this item https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... jw3w1o.amp
It's A.i. which detects potholes. For those who don't know, road engineers drive routes to inspect the roads. When they do find a pothole, they have to stop measure it, and record it as a work item... This slows up their journey and can put them at risk of being hit by passing traffic....
..this bit of kit measures the potholes dimensions as the car is being driven and records it automatically .. basically it means road traffic engineers can inspect more roads in the same amount of time...

"Stop to measure it!"

It is exactly that nonsense we should avoid.
A pothole is a pothole.
It is fixed by filling it in!
It may need remedial work that "measuring"it will fail to take into account.

Many are caused by crap maintenance of existing infrastructure; flowing water and ice are damaging to roads.
Simple maintenance does not require the big sums spent on IT and AI, but men or women prepared to use their bodies and simple hand tools.

Not people sat at desks with screens.
Just think, instead of going to the gym....

And PS.
It's not AI as I understand it, but a sensor recording bumps!
And it's not bleeding working round here anyway!!!

[cycle tramp]

It's not AI as I understand it, but a sensor recording bumps!
And it's not bleeding working round here anyway!!!

You , sir, are quite mistaken. If you had bothered to read the news item you would have noticed the word 'cameras', or even perhaps even carried out a little research of your own? https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2025/01/15 ... -potholes/ But why let the truth get in the way of yout rant against government services -Boo local services, boo! Hurrah for the private sector! Hurrah!!

[PDQ Mobile]

It's not AI as I understand it, but a sensor recording bumps!
And it's not bleeding working round here anyway!!!

You , sir, are quite mistaken. If you had bothered to read the news item you would have noticed the word 'cameras', or even perhaps even carried out a little research of your own? https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2025/01/15 ... -potholes/ But why let the truth get in the way of yout rant against government services -Boo local services, boo! Hurrah for the private sector! Hurrah!!

I am not mistaken.
I am not praising the private sector.
I am pointing out failures and wastage in the system.

Years ago our small roads were far better maintained.
It is a simple statement beyond any criticism because it is fact.
And there were no computers at work just some steady workers.

Cameras and sensors- just more humbug.

Ps. I cleared that grid and more.
Cost ME time, muscle and fuel.
But I did a decent job.

[cycle tramp]

It's not AI as I understand it, but a sensor recording bumps!
And it's not bleeding working round here anyway!!!

You , sir, are quite mistaken. If you had bothered to read the news item you would have noticed the word 'cameras', or even perhaps even carried out a little research of your own? https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2025/01/15 ... -potholes/ But why let the truth get in the way of yout rant against government services -Boo local services, boo! Hurrah for the private sector! Hurrah!!

Years ago our small roads were far better maintained.

Years ago there was much less motorised traffic and the weight of the average car was alot lighter, and there were also less roads.... now you will kindly do me the curtesy of reading the bbc report with the attention to the word 'camera'..
...following this if you could retrieve your view point from the mythical 1930's it would greatly appreciated, it is now 2025 local services are under alot more financial pressure and alot more demand..

[Nearholmer]

There’s an element of “why wouldn’t you?” in this too.

Why wouldn’t you send a bloke in a van fitted with sensors, data-logging, and a live link to HQ out to drive over every road-lane checking surface-condition, if the tech is available, rather than send at least two blokes (one as a lookout) walking over the same circuit to do the same job? It’s definitely going to be quicker, and a lot easier to make it safe.

What I’m sure you wouldn’t do is send a gang out in a truck, with all the tools and materials, to do a straight “find and fix”, because for one thing arranging the necessary lane-closures “on the fly” would be a complete nightmare on many roads. It might work on very quiet residential streets where there are multiple alternative routes, but can you imagine trying to work that way on a heavily-used dual carriageway, or one of those twisty rural single-lane A roads?

Much “tech” is so relatively cheap and simple to use these days, so that “why wouldn’t you?” applies in endless numbers of cases. An analogy might be hand-tools: why wouldn’t a person erecting galvanised-iron fencing use a power tool to tighten all the nuts and bolts, rather than a manual socket-set, or a couple of ring-spanners?

[[XAP]Bob]

"Stop to measure it!"

It is exactly that nonsense we should avoid.
A pothole is a pothole.
It is fixed by filling it in!
It may need remedial work that "measuring"it will fail to take into account.

Filling in a pothole isn't necessarily a cure... it's a patch at best. Yes, it should be done as soon as possible, but people actually looking at a pothole can tell what is actually causing the pothole...

Many are caused by crap maintenance of existing infrastructure; flowing water and ice are damaging to roads.

So if there is flowing water and noone ever looks at that because all they do is fill the pothole, then all you're doing is constantly filling a pothole which is going to come straight back.

Proper pothole repairs are significantly more involved than just filling in the hole, because the surface around the pothole, and the substrate beneath it will also have been damaged.

I'm all for having scanners on council vehicles measuring the road surface... they could be installed on bin lorries for instance - no additional driving, just a regular inspection of the vast majority of the roads in an area.

[PDQ Mobile]

You , sir, are quite mistaken. If you had bothered to read the news item you would have noticed the word 'cameras', or even perhaps even carried out a little research of your own? https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2025/01/15 ... -potholes/ But why let the truth get in the way of yout rant against government services -Boo local services, boo! Hurrah for the private sector! Hurrah!!

Years ago our small roads were far better maintained.

Years ago there was much less motorised traffic and the weight of the average car was alot lighter, and there were also less roads.... now you will kindly do me the curtesy of reading the bbc report with the attention to the word 'camera'..
...following this if you could retrieve your view point from the mythical 1930's it would greatly appreciated, it is now 2025 local services are under alot more financial pressure and alot more demand..

I read the Surrey article.
I didn't find it convincing.
Surrey IS rather different to rural N Wales though.
(Though we have our share of 4x4s- not me though.)

There is nothing mythical about the fact that our rural roads were far better maintained in the 70's, 90's and 90's than they are now.
This is before the ubiquitous use of even mini diggers, let alone hi-tech.
Mini diggers are now used for even the smallest job where just a decent shovel would be a better, cheaper and less damaging option.

This is not some rosy tinted view but solid hard fact. Come up here and I will show you where my local council has wasted and continues to waste considerable sums of money on issues caused by lack of simple quick maintenance.
The original grid noted but one of them.

Any road will need to be closed or restricted to repair stuff anyway so I don't see surveying manually to be an issue.
Potholes are often reported by members of the public and,hopefully, council staff.

A simple sensor is not AI.
I think there must be a movement/vibration sensor as well as a camera?
I read that one problem with self driving technology is the difficulty it has with differentiating between a large paper bag in the road and something far more hazardous.
An issue with which most drivers /cyclists have little or no problem.
..
Since 1982 my rates/ council tax has gone up by a factor of over 30!
The roads are in a much poorer state.
The top tier of the council, and I include some of the IT staff, earn pretty high salaries and have top notch pensions etc.
It remains my view that the money spent on much of this hi-tech would be better spent on simple solutions.

Just by way of inquiry do you, sir, work in IT?

[PDQ Mobile]

"Stop to measure it!"

It is exactly that nonsense we should avoid.
A pothole is a pothole.
It is fixed by filling it in!
It may need remedial work that "measuring"it will fail to take into account.

Filling in a pothole isn't necessarily a cure... it's a patch at best. Yes, it should be done as soon as possible, but people actually looking at a pothole can tell what is actually causing the pothole...

Many are caused by crap maintenance of existing infrastructure; flowing water and ice are damaging to roads.

So if there is flowing water and noone ever looks at that because all they do is fill the pothole, then all you're doing is constantly filling a pothole which is going to come straight back.

Proper pothole repairs are significantly more involved than just filling in the hole, because the surface around the pothole, and the substrate beneath it will also have been damaged.

I'm all for having scanners on council vehicles measuring the road surface... they could be installed on bin lorries for instance - no additional driving, just a regular inspection of the vast majority of the roads in an area.

Yes, I agree.
You are more concise than me.

What is a bin lorry??

[Stevek76]

The need to measure/classify/log potholes and ultimately better target resources increases with in line with the level of constraint on those resources.

Which is perhaps why some cynicism might be warranted when Starmer and co talk about AI in this manner. The reality is the a bit of ML image rec is certainly going to be helpful here (and it's not exactly new this year either!) but it's probably not going to make a significant difference to public perception of the state of the roads. The expensive bit remains repairing the roads, and quite a few are to the point that proper resurfacing is required and that's going to mean £s and labour resources, something the government is not willing to provide.

[[XAP]Bob]

What is a bin lorry??

They're the vehicles which come and collect rubbish from your bins, but only every second or third week and on days when you haven't put them out.

[[XAP]Bob]

Since 1982 my rates/ council tax has gone up by a factor of over 30!

Has what they're responsible for increased as well though?

[the snail]

...
..
Since 1982 my rates/ council tax has gone up by a factor of over 30!
The roads are in a much poorer state.
....

Well maybe you need to pay more tax? Perhaps reduced support from central government is a factor? I'm struggling with your logic though. You complain about costs and quality of service, but you don't like anything 'modern' that improves productivity, and seem to think that everything would be better if we went back to the good old days where a block with a shovel fixed the pothole while his three mates leaned on their brooms and smoked a fag or two?
A sensor and a camera isn't AI, but quite likely they are inputs to an AI system. This stuff is not rocket science, it's standard technology these days.

[PDQ Mobile]

What is a bin lorry??

They're the vehicles which come and collect rubbish from your bins, but only every second or third week and on days when you haven't put them out.

We don'r get a rubbish collection.
Rubbish has to he taken somewhere else.
Do you think I should get a council tax reduction?

[PDQ Mobile]

...
..
Since 1982 my rates/ council tax has gone up by a factor of over 30!
The roads are in a much poorer state.
....

Well maybe you need to pay more tax? Perhaps reduced support from central government is a factor? I'm struggling with your logic though. You complain about costs and quality of service, but you don't like anything 'modern' that improves productivity, and seem to think that everything would be better if we went back to the good old days where a block with a shovel fixed the pothole while his three mates leaned on their brooms and smoked a fag or two?
A sensor and a camera isn't AI, but quite likely they are inputs to an AI system. This stuff is not rocket science, it's standard technology these days.

I already pay ten times more road fund licence than the average £35 for the "privilege" of running an old 1600cc car, thanks.

The shovel is just an example of a low tech low fossil energy remedy- that really works well.
Given a fit and committed workforce, but it's another issue.
You are the one bringing smoking into it.

I have already stated one can find council workers asleep in quiet corners round here, it's not every day but it happens.
A parallel to people at work on internet forums perhaps?

I understand it's "standard technology" these days but I still question it's efficacy and economics.

There are places where it has become indispensable but fixing (and maintaining) road stuff isn't high on that list.

But I guess you are right, the older I get the less I like "modern".
Just an old fogey!!