UK Politics

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mjr
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Re: UK Politics

Post by mjr »

Nearholmer wrote: 19 Jan 2025, 1:31pm Society in Britain/UK has evolved multiple times in multiple ways over, say, the past 250 years; it’s always evolving, and it always has been. The idea that change should somehow be replaced by permanent stasis in a sort of 1957 Theme Park is just plain weird, it can’t be, and IMO it very definitely shouldn’t be.
It would have to be a Theme Park because even by 1957, the real UK had been invaded and resettled so many times that it wasn't a monoculture, no matter how much fascists lie that it was.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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pwa
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Re: UK Politics

Post by pwa »

mjr wrote: 19 Jan 2025, 10:09pm
Nearholmer wrote: 19 Jan 2025, 1:31pm Society in Britain/UK has evolved multiple times in multiple ways over, say, the past 250 years; it’s always evolving, and it always has been. The idea that change should somehow be replaced by permanent stasis in a sort of 1957 Theme Park is just plain weird, it can’t be, and IMO it very definitely shouldn’t be.
It would have to be a Theme Park because even by 1957, the real UK had been invaded and resettled so many times that it wasn't a monoculture, no matter how much fascists lie that it was.
Shirley Bassey was several years into her singing career in 1957.
pete75
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Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

cycle tramp wrote: 19 Jan 2025, 8:35pm
Nearholmer wrote: 19 Jan 2025, 8:18pm The thing that seems wrong with your thesis to me a the word “white”, in that men of all sorts of hues have gone on destructive power trips at various times in various places throughout history.
I think that may be because my history education has manly focused around Europe, so that's King Richard 1st, King Edward, Thomas de Torquemanda, Matthew Hopkins, Adolf Hilter... but yes, other non-European examples would be Pol Pot and if you read the amnesty reports perhaps Xi Jinping...
..so, yeah, I take your point that being angry and male is an equal opportunities post. It's just, personally I can remember more of those who happen to be European.
Are women in power any different? Mrs Thatcher, Golda Meir, Catherine the Great, Elizabeth 1, Indira Ghandi, Mary 1 and even the saintly Aung San Suu Kyi and the Rohingya. Not noticed so much with women because fewer have been in power.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

cycle tramp wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 10:58pm
pete75 wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 9:37pm
cycle tramp wrote: 16 Jan 2025, 5:20pm

Indeed, however during this election we also saw a large percentage of people not voting at all. If there is hope, its that the more Nigel Farage bemoans about the rise of LGBQ people, or vegans or people who want quite car free areas outside of their houses.... or even don't want their cats run over by commuters on their way late to a meeting, he will encourage more people to actually get involved in politics and vote against grey, dull people who believed that the world should have somehow stopped in 1938, and that we should go back to those times.

People are concerned about the rise of the right... personally I seem it as a last gasp by angry white blokes, seeking to hold onto power before it is washed away from them by a tide of multicultural multifaith and otherwise diverse communities. Good. It is time, that our time is over before we utterly £*** everything up. Let's hit the 'evolve society' button move on with our lives and into something alot more equitable, colourful and exciting.
More wishful thinking.
I don't think it is. Ultimately this is the result of the poisonous rhetoric espoused by tHe far right... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vddrjjgr0o.amp
..and quite rightly it has appalled people. People have rejected societies which are based on control and brutality in the past and will do so again. Humanity is a social animal - its imbedded in our genetics from the time that we were primates, and we acknowledge that we are stronger and better protected when we are part of something larger than ourselves. Which is society - and it falls to each of us to work towards building that society and making a choice between fear and hate or education and friendship.
Evil sows the seeds of its own destruction- which is a polite way of pointing out that if society does produce more people who think like the person in the news article, then society won't be around for very long
We're discussing Reform's election chances and there's no doubt it'sa party of the right but it's a long way to the left of the chap in the article you link to. Your post is as far fetched and utterly wrong as the journalists who called Mr Corbyn a Stalinist.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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mjr
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Re: UK Politics

Post by mjr »

pete75 wrote: 20 Jan 2025, 10:58am
cycle tramp wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 10:58pm
pete75 wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 9:37pm
More wishful thinking.
I don't think it is. Ultimately this is the result of the poisonous rhetoric espoused by tHe far right... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vddrjjgr0o.amp
..and quite rightly it has appalled people. People have rejected societies which are based on control and brutality in the past and will do so again. Humanity is a social animal - its imbedded in our genetics from the time that we were primates, and we acknowledge that we are stronger and better protected when we are part of something larger than ourselves. Which is society - and it falls to each of us to work towards building that society and making a choice between fear and hate or education and friendship.
Evil sows the seeds of its own destruction- which is a polite way of pointing out that if society does produce more people who think like the person in the news article, then society won't be around for very long
We're discussing Reform's election chances and there's no doubt it'sa party of the right but it's a long way to the left of the chap in the article you link to. Your post is as far fetched and utterly wrong as the journalists who called Mr Corbyn a Stalinist.
Have Reform disowned Parslow or any other participant in the Farage Riots yet? It doesn't seem to have been reported widely.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
cycle tramp
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Re: UK Politics

Post by cycle tramp »

pete75 wrote: 20 Jan 2025, 10:58am
cycle tramp wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 10:58pm
pete75 wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 9:37pm
More wishful thinking.
I don't think it is. Ultimately this is the result of the poisonous rhetoric espoused by tHe far right... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vddrjjgr0o.amp
..and quite rightly it has appalled people. People have rejected societies which are based on control and brutality in the past and will do so again. Humanity is a social animal - its imbedded in our genetics from the time that we were primates, and we acknowledge that we are stronger and better protected when we are part of something larger than ourselves. Which is society - and it falls to each of us to work towards building that society and making a choice between fear and hate or education and friendship.
We're discussing Reform's election chances and there's no doubt it'sa party of the right but it's a long way to the left of the chap in the article you link to. Your post is as far fetched and utterly wrong as the journalists who called Mr Corbyn a Stalinist.
Well, here's Reform Uk's website, and everyone can read it and make their own minds up https://www.reformparty.uk/

Apparently everything is broken and its all because we've lost control of our laws, our financial institutions.. oh, and we've lost our culture (whatever that is - fox hunting? Being able to smoke in a pub? Finding 'carry on films' funny?)

Is it a long way to the left of the thug which I referenced? I doubt if farage would be stooooopid enough to own any nazi memorabilia, nor would I expect him to actually attack anyone....
..however in reading between the lines, it's the same message that Adolf Hilter was spewing. That our great nation had been brought to its knees by indifferent previous governments of varying colours, laws which the UK didn't make, outside influences of 'woke mentality', and a lack of control over finances and borders...
....and apparently only Farage can save us..
Not an investment in new technology, or plain simple hard work, or perhaps building tidal pools for energy generation..
Just Farage..
..strangely there is nothing very much in their policy, and there's nothing about the current environmental problems, nor foreign policy...
At least during the last election, they were candid about fracking and how it was going to make us all very rich and well off...
The biggest issue I have with Reform is that they can appear reasonable. Scratch beneath the surface, and you find yourself asking, what's wrong with living in a culturally diverse community, if someone feels like they should be part of a LGBQ group, then why is it any of my business? And what's wrong with taking other people's feelings into consideration?
The very fact that someone belongs to a LGBQ group, or that low traffic neighbourhoods exist, or that people do take other things, such as the environment into consideration, and this annoys and alarms people like Anderson, should be worrying to the rest of us.

Hidden in the Reform's website, is the sentence 'to bring back British culture' but what is that? Is that gay bashing? Is that allowing racist, homophobic or sexist jokes back on the t.v is it endless re-runs of Alf Garnet/ Sickness & in health.. will we be able to pat women's bottoms without fear of being charged with sexual assault, who knows.. but Farage doesn't have a clue.... because all he's looking for is your vote to legitimise his own fearful view point...
Dedicated to anyone who has reached that stage https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqbk9cDX0l0 (please note may include humorous swearing)
pete75
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Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

cycle tramp wrote: 20 Jan 2025, 6:17pm
pete75 wrote: 20 Jan 2025, 10:58am
cycle tramp wrote: 18 Jan 2025, 10:58pm

I don't think it is. Ultimately this is the result of the poisonous rhetoric espoused by tHe far right... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7vddrjjgr0o.amp
..and quite rightly it has appalled people. People have rejected societies which are based on control and brutality in the past and will do so again. Humanity is a social animal - its imbedded in our genetics from the time that we were primates, and we acknowledge that we are stronger and better protected when we are part of something larger than ourselves. Which is society - and it falls to each of us to work towards building that society and making a choice between fear and hate or education and friendship.
We're discussing Reform's election chances and there's no doubt it'sa party of the right but it's a long way to the left of the chap in the article you link to. Your post is as far fetched and utterly wrong as the journalists who called Mr Corbyn a Stalinist.
Well, here's Reform Uk's website, and everyone can read it and make their own minds up https://www.reformparty.uk/

Apparently everything is broken and its all because we've lost control of our laws, our financial institutions.. oh, and we've lost our culture (whatever that is - fox hunting? Being able to smoke in a pub? Finding 'carry on films' funny?)

Is it a long way to the left of the thug which I referenced? I doubt if farage would be stooooopid enough to own any nazi memorabilia, nor would I expect him to actually attack anyone....
..however in reading between the lines, it's the same message that Adolf Hilter was spewing. That our great nation had been brought to its knees by indifferent previous governments of varying colours, laws which the UK didn't make, outside influences of 'woke mentality', and a lack of control over finances and borders...
....and apparently only Farage can save us..
Not an investment in new technology, or plain simple hard work, or perhaps building tidal pools for energy generation..
Just Farage..
..strangely there is nothing very much in their policy, and there's nothing about the current environmental problems, nor foreign policy...
At least during the last election, they were candid about fracking and how it was going to make us all very rich and well off...
The biggest issue I have with Reform is that they can appear reasonable. Scratch beneath the surface, and you find yourself asking, what's wrong with living in a culturally diverse community, if someone feels like they should be part of a LGBQ group, then why is it any of my business? And what's wrong with taking other people's feelings into consideration?
The very fact that someone belongs to a LGBQ group, or that low traffic neighbourhoods exist, or that people do take other things, such as the environment into consideration, and this annoys and alarms people like Anderson, should be worrying to the rest of us.

Hidden in the Reform's website, is the sentence 'to bring back British culture' but what is that? Is that gay bashing? Is that allowing racist, homophobic or sexist jokes back on the t.v is it endless re-runs of Alf Garnet/ Sickness & in health.. will we be able to pat women's bottoms without fear of being charged with sexual assault, who knows.. but Farage doesn't have a clue.... because all he's looking for is your vote to legitimise his own fearful view point...
What you need to realise is that Reform UK is going to gain more political power and influence over the next few years. I don't regard that as a good thing and I guess you feel the same. Point is not wanting it to happen shouldn't blind anyone to the fact that it will happen.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
djnotts
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Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

Maybe more appropriate in "What has made you laugh..."

Increase in unlicensed drivers predicted :

"A proposed anti-fraud law that would see benefit cheats banned from driving for two years as part of attempts to bring down the welfare bill, the Daily Telegraph reports. It says the new rules would apply to anyone who owes more than £1,000 in wrongly claimed payments and ignores repeated requests to repay it, ......"
pete75
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Re: UK Politics

Post by pete75 »

djnotts wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 9:34am Maybe more appropriate in "What has made you laugh..."

Increase in unlicensed drivers predicted :

"A proposed anti-fraud law that would see benefit cheats banned from driving for two years as part of attempts to bring down the welfare bill, the Daily Telegraph reports. It says the new rules would apply to anyone who owes more than £1,000 in wrongly claimed payments and ignores repeated requests to repay it, ......"
Beats me how anyone on benefits can afford to run a car.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
roubaixtuesday
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Re: UK Politics

Post by roubaixtuesday »

djnotts wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 9:34am Maybe more appropriate in "What has made you laugh..."

Increase in unlicensed drivers predicted :

"A proposed anti-fraud law that would see benefit cheats banned from driving for two years as part of attempts to bring down the welfare bill, the Daily Telegraph reports. It says the new rules would apply to anyone who owes more than £1,000 in wrongly claimed payments and ignores repeated requests to repay it, ......"
Bizarre proposal.

Taking licences off drivers convicted of road traffic offences would be much better - see lenient sentences thread.

And such a sanction would be far more impacting on people who can afford fines rather than those who can't.
gbnz
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Re: UK Politics

Post by gbnz »

Suppose those groups who don't need to drive, such as benefit claimants and OAP's, should have their driving licences removed anyway

Perhaps on moving back into work, benefit claimants (Nb. Excepting OAP's) could have their licence returned.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: UK Politics

Post by [XAP]Bob »

gbnz wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 3:58pm Suppose those groups who don't need to drive, such as benefit claimants and OAP's, should have their driving licences removed anyway

Perhaps on moving back into work, benefit claimants (Nb. Excepting OAP's) could have their licence returned.
I really hope you're trying to say something other than what you've written.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: UK Politics

Post by [XAP]Bob »

pete75 wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 3:27pm Beats me how anyone on benefits can afford to run a car.
Have you tried *not* running a car?
For most people that means public transport, which means many jobs aren't accessible, and is more expensive than running a car in many ways.

Yes - *we* all know that a bike is seriously overpowered as a transport option... but the vast majority don't see it that way.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
gbnz
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Re: UK Politics

Post by gbnz »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 6:03pm
gbnz wrote: 22 Jan 2025, 3:58pm Suppose those groups who don't need to drive, such as benefit claimants and OAP's, should have their driving licences removed anyway

Perhaps on moving back into work, benefit claimants (Nb. Excepting OAP's) could have their licence returned.
I really hope you're trying to say something other than what you've written.
Hmm........given that people who are motorists, generate a huge, environmental impact, yes I am serious. Why should individuals living without contributing via work, be allowed to create vast quantities of pollution, when they don't can't justify a vehicle?

Given we have a car dominated society, it's more than possible that the administrative overload of only allowing benefit claimants to drive for interviews or when back in employment, would be too much. Who knows, a pool of cars needed for interview needs, a "ticket" system? But OAP's ? Seems absurd that a non productive welfare dependent grouping, should be allowed to drive
Last edited by gbnz on 22 Jan 2025, 7:07pm, edited 1 time in total.
djnotts
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Re: UK Politics

Post by djnotts »

^
As an OAP with no car, but who does sometimes drive the gf's modest motor, I actually pretty much agree. But then, unlike many, public transport is good AND we can afford taxis for hospital visits etc.
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