Small(er) wheeled bikes - non folding!

[Carlton green]

The team pursuit drafting advantage of small wheels was a real thing. Probably exceeded the rolling resistance disadvantage.

The Moulton is a good long-distance choice purely on a comfort basis. They do roll a touch slower and are a bit sluggish uphill but that doesn’t matter much at the speeds I do. I figured that I did better during the third and fourth days of PBP (1 on 16”, 2 on 20”), compared to my big-wheel PBPs, just because of the reduced physical deterioration.

I’m not sure that the typical small wheel bike is ideal for long distances, but that small wheels can be made to work well is usefully demonstrated by recent posts about Raleigh Moultons. Beyond that we see the likes of Sheldon Brown converting them (his Raleigh Twenty) to performance bikes, our own RJB gaining great utility in his daily life from his traditional 20” folders - and fixed frames too - and our own Tangled Metal using his Brompton and local trains to commute.

Comfort is a key issue in how long a ride can be and the fatigue suffered. Rolling resistance is important, but reasonable comfort enables you to just keep going and steadily eat the miles at some sustainable pace.

[OllyB]

Moultons are still produced at their Bradford on Avon base, some of them very high end indeed! I have regular toured on a Moulton, and found it to be an incredibly comfortable bike and a very good luggage carrier!

[simonhill]

NUN 1

Because it looks like a nun wearing a wimple.

[rjb]

Thankyou Simon
I confess to having to Google a wimple

220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_121-0320,_Krakau,_Gefangnis_Montelupich,_Klosterschwester.jpg (17.59 KiB) Viewed 2641 times

[cyclist]

Smaller wheeled bikes are suitable for certain people especially with relatively smaller figures. With respect to the performance of the small weeled bikes, this cannot be extracted from the cyclist.The current material is almost exclusively from steel except for the mini-velo which is an aluminium alloy frame. Most would have rim brakes except fora few models. Technically, They have multiple features:

• Pros
• They have lower centre of gravity, thus enhanced stability
• They accelerate faster
• The wheels are stiffer

Cons

• Smaller wheel bikes have smaller gear-inch ratio, thus require higher cadence cycling (rpm) to achieve the same speed.
• Some argue that the overall rolling resistance is higher as the contact surface between the wheel and the ground ,has higher ratio of the wheel
• They are slower on climbin uphills

Overall, some find them the best for touring, commute, hybrid commute, and shopping, stunts and racing (BMX freestyle, and BMX racing). They are no more allowed in professional racing due to UCI restrictions, hence practically it is difficult to compare them to modern bikes in racing performance.

I tried a 20" bike for many years, I could say that it accelerates faster, but it is generally slower, and feels a bit twitchy to ride, but, it is generally more stable to ride and easier to mount and dismount. It starts and stop easily as it loses its momentem easily. It is an excellent bike in the city, and for shopping. I have done the odd 20+miles journey with it. The journey was OK but it took longer to arrive.

I would always prefer to have one for the short city commutes, and for shopping, but, I did not enjoy it in longer rides.

[pjclinch]

Smaller wheeled bikes are suitable for certain people especially with relatively smaller figures.

More "give more options for design suitable for..."
A too-big frame is a too-big frame, whatever the wheel size.

With respect to the performance of the small weeled bikes, this cannot be extracted from the cyclist.The current material is almost exclusively from steel except for the mini-velo which is an aluminium alloy frame. Most would have rim brakes except fora few models.

Well no, not really. Alloy and discs have been widely available with small wheels going back years.

Technically, They have multiple features:

• Pros
• They have lower centre of gravity, thus enhanced stability
• They accelerate faster
• The wheels are stiffer

The centre of mass of a bike is dominated by the rider who will typically be placed to pedal efficiently and thus in a similar place relative to bottom bracket regardless of wheel size. Bottom bracket height doesn't depend on wheel size.

Cons

• Smaller wheel bikes have smaller gear-inch ratio, thus require higher cadence cycling (rpm) to achieve the same speed.
• Some argue that the overall rolling resistance is higher as the contact surface between the wheel and the ground ,has higher ratio of the wheel
• They are slower on climbin uphills

You don't need higher cadence if you fit appropriate gearing. That's what gearing is for!
Rolling resistance is higher because the wheel rotates more often to cover a set distance so there's more friction at the hub, and because the tighter diameter makes more work climbing over bumps.
Hill climbing speed is not a direct function of wheel size though wheel size may relate to other factors that are. So e.g. riding over lumps and bumps off-road you're better off for speed on bigger wheels.

I tried a 20" bike for many years, I could say that it accelerates faster, but it is generally slower, and feels a bit twitchy to ride, but, it is generally more stable to ride and easier to mount and dismount. It starts and stop easily as it loses its momentem easily. It is an excellent bike in the city, and for shopping. I have done the odd 20+miles journey with it. The journey was OK but it took longer to arrive.

I would always prefer to have one for the short city commutes, and for shopping, but, I did not enjoy it in longer rides.

This is going to be about the particular design of the overall bike, not simply that it had small wheels. A long ride on a Moulton NS will be very different to long ride on an RSW16. Time trial bikes and tourers both tend to have 700c wheels, but riding characteristics are very different. Wheel size is only one factor in many in a bike design.

Pete.

[cyclist]

In Moulton bikes the F-frame or open frame could be suitable for a person with limited hip mobility, as compared to an XS 700c bike with high top tube. On the other hand, step through frames of 700c bikes could work, but their handling could be different.

On the highest gear of a road bike the gear inch Comparing road bike to road small wheeled bikes, ratio would be about 125 on a Moulton NS it would be 110 or something. That's what I meant by higher rpm to cover the same distance.

Whether this is help or hindrance this is another question.

[fatmac]

I believe small wheel bike perform on a par with their big wheel brethren, as long as they have equal length wheelbase & chainstays.

The original F frame Moultons were pigs uphill because they had long chainstays, (I think 19"), & a 44" wheelbase, whilst the modern AM series had a 41" wheelbase with, I think it was, 17.5" chainstays, & they could climb as well as any other.

Most folding bikes have between a 36" & 39" wheelbase, & fairly short chainstays, but have a lot of steel in them, which makes them heavy & less nimble, but are mainly for commuting/shopping, so are acceptable to those that buy them for these reasons.

[rjb]

You can always tart your humble small wheeled shopper up.
Here's my Dawes Kingpin shopper.

Dawes Kingpin

[pjclinch]

In Moulton bikes the F-frame or open frame could be suitable for a person with limited hip mobility, as compared to an XS 700c bike with high top tube. On the other hand, step through frames of 700c bikes could work, but their handling could be different.

An easy step-through mount/dismount has been a deliberate feature of Moultons from the start, same is true of current models.
big wheel step throughs are very common so we know they work, though you sacrifice frame stiffness. Whether that's a problem depends on what you're wanting to do.

On the highest gear of a road bike the gear inch Comparing road bike to road small wheeled bikes, ratio would be about 125 on a Moulton NS it would be 110 or something. That's what I meant by higher rpm to cover the same distance.

Only if you insist on putting identical transmissions on each one, but there's no clear reason one is bound to do that. Want higher gears on a small wheeler? Put on a bigger chainwheel

There are sufficient transmission options on the market that you should be able to come up with the gear range you want for most wheel sizes off the shelf unless you have a pretty niche requirement.

Pete.

[Brucey]

.....big wheel step throughs are very common so we know they work, though you sacrifice frame stiffness.....

and/or weight....