SPD pedal compendium

[Sweep]

After a couple of unfortunate experiences with seized SPD pedals stuck in cranks, I stopped doing them up so tight, and I got in the habit of getting in as much anti-seize grease as possible. I don't care if I have to check they are not working loose once in a while, so long as they come out when I want them to. I never put a pedal in without grease on the threads.

Can't help but think your problem was not do with tightness but with total lack of ANY grease. You should always use grease in such interfaces. I trust similar ones on your bike/s are all greased.

[pjclinch]

Vertical play is probably the 'bete noir' of SPD pedals. It is undoubtedly made worse by worn cleats and/or shoes, but also the pedal 'claws' may be worn on the underside, in which case claw replacement may offer the only complete solution. Note that it may be possible to obtain some temporary relief by using a thin sacrificial layer of flexible plastic between the pedal and shoe.

Tightening the release tension does not usually reduce the float (although it might make it less 'easy' eg. if the cleat is still long enough to be gripped by the pedal 'claws' at all times). To change the float usually requires a change to either the cleat and/or the claws. Cleats may be welded/ground to suit.

I use Time ATACs in lieu of SPDs. There are bars rather than claws and I've never noticed any appreciable wear on them over > 20 years I've been using them. They also engage very well even with ridiculously worn cleats, here's a pair that were still engaging fine and rattle-free in use, I replaced them because I felt there was a danger that the what was left of the engagement ridge would just snap off it was so thin.

very worn Time ATAC cleat next to a new cleat

There's also no faffing about with release tension, which isn't something I've ever missed since my original dalliance with clipless (a long defunct Look SPuD-u-like).

Pete.

[AndyK]

I use Time ATACs in lieu of SPDs. There are bars rather than claws and I've never noticed any appreciable wear on them over > 20 years I've been using them. They also engage very well even with ridiculously worn cleats, here's a pair that were still engaging fine and rattle-free in use, I replaced them because I felt there was a danger that the what was left of the engagement ridge would just snap off it was so thin.

Same experience here. The problem I had was that by the time the cleats were so worn that I thought I'd better replace them, the heads of the allen bolts had also worn down so much that I couldn't get the allen key to latch onto them for removal!

[pwa]

After a couple of unfortunate experiences with seized SPD pedals stuck in cranks, I stopped doing them up so tight, and I got in the habit of getting in as much anti-seize grease as possible. I don't care if I have to check they are not working loose once in a while, so long as they come out when I want them to. I never put a pedal in without grease on the threads.

Can't help but think your problem was not do with tightness but with total lack of ANY grease. You should always use grease in such interfaces. I trust similar ones on your bike/s are all greased.

I am sure I would have had some grease in there, but possibly a lithium grease (better for bearings) and not the copper slip anti-seize stuff I now use on threads. And maybe I had too little of it and left it too long before trying to renew it.

[Brucey]

..... The problem I had was that by the time the cleats were so worn that I thought I'd better replace them, the heads of the allen bolts had also worn down so much that I couldn't get the allen key to latch onto them for removal!.....

this is not uncommon. I also think that the screws in two bolt shoes are more prone to seizure, regardless of cleat type. Maybe the relative longevity of most two-bolt cleats has something to do with it. In recent years I have always fitted them using a generous dollop of copper-ease, which seems to help.

[AndyK]

..... The problem I had was that by the time the cleats were so worn that I thought I'd better replace them, the heads of the allen bolts had also worn down so much that I couldn't get the allen key to latch onto them for removal!.....

this is not uncommon. I also think that the screws in two bolt shoes are more prone to seizure, regardless of cleat type. Maybe the relative longevity of most two-bolt cleats has something to do with it. In recent years I have always fitted them using a generous dollop of copper-ease, which seems to help.

Very wise.
The SPD cleat bolts are also more prone to falling out, which leads people to screw them in very firmly in the first place!
In a way it's a tribute to the longevity of my Specialized BG Sport shoes. Often a pair of shoes will wear out before the cleats become unusable, so removing the cleats isn't an issue.

[Brucey]

for many years my default pedal was PD M515, so I have several sets which I'm planning to upgrade (although whether I shall ever be able to use them again is another matter). The planned upgrades comprise the following;

1) titivating the bearings. The cone surfaces (including the spindle) are to be lightly ground, then polished. The cups will just be polished. Polishing in this case comprises several steps, each to be carried out whilst the workpiece rotates. First, use abrasive papers in sequence, eg. 200, 400, 600, 1000 grit. Next, use a suitable polishing compound (eg. solvol autosol) to make the surfaces perfect. Finally clean everything scrupulously.

2) make new jaw pivot pins. These are threaded M5 near the top, have a plain shank about 4.0 mm dia., and a 'cheesehead' (JIS) top. Having had the top of a screw come off without warning, I have crafted a set of replacements before. IIRC I started with a M5 x 50 mm stainless caphead set screw, and I used a lathe to make it fit for purpose. This did work OK, but it was very slow and rather difficult to do well. Then I noticed that PD-M747 used grub screws instead, which can be replicated by SGing a length of M5 stainless studding; far easier.

3) hard-face the jaws. Using MIG welding and carefully selected pre-placed wires, I plan to make a wear resistant W,Mo,Cr,Ni steel in situ. This is to be ground to shape subsequently.

4) Fit the ultimate lube port. After many years of thinking about it, I have come up with what I believe to be an optimal solution. In this, a CSK hole about 10 mm deep is tapped M4, ready to accept a CSK screw. This hole need not penetrate or link to any bearing cavity directly. It can be drilled parallel to a bearing cavity. A second, linking hole is then added. This hole is drilled with a drill bit that is just sub-straw sized. Suppose that an aerosol straw measures 1.55 mm. The hole could be drilled with a 1.50 mm drill bit. This second hole starts just beneath the CSK, is angled at about 45 degrees wrt the first hole, and penetrates into a bearing cavity. If the drill bit is slightly angled, rotated at full speed in the hole and then orbited, the result should be (provided you have not overdone it and broken the drill bit) that the hole is now slightly hourglass-shaped, perhaps 1.6 mm top and bottom but still 1.5 mm in the middle. This tapered hole should permit a suitably sized straw to seal well, allowing the bearings to be purged/relubricated in situ with great ease. It is expected that the bearings are first cleaned/purged using a GT85-esque spray via a straw, then relubricated eg. with SBG via a straw. If a more conventional grease gun is used (eg. with SFG) then a seal can be made using a nozzle tip/rubber ring in the CSK. By careful examination of what comes out during the clean/purge phase, it should be possible to determine the health (or otherwise) of the bearings,

5) Fit improved trim. As standard, PD-M515 has plastic caps on the pedal ends; these have a pastrycutter shaped interface, and are retained from the inside by M5 threaded 'cheesehead' (JIS) screws. The plastic caps also cover a now-superfluous vent hole which should be plugged with a piece of cocktail stick. A standard M5 nut can be given a tapered version of the pastrycutter profile, which (along with epoxy resin) ensures that the nut won't pull out of the pedal when installed from the inside. The plastic cap is to be replaced by a similarly sized piece of self-adhesive blue reflexite, with a central 5 mm hole. A white-coloured washer, approx 13.5 mm OD, will lie under the head of a red-coloured Al M5 button head screw, so as to make things that look like roundels. This improved trim ought to be slightly lighter, less likely to be damaged in a prang, as well as more repairable.

6) Fit improved lockbolts, and modify the spindles. As standard, PD-515 uses long plastic lockbolts and spacers. It is proposed that these are swapped out for shorter XTR lockbolts in Al, to be fitted without spacers. To make this work well, it is envisaged that the external profile of the pedal spindle will need to be made more like that of PD-M540 etc. although the revised PD-M515 spindle will retain it's spanner flats and solid centre. Because more of the pedal spindle will be exposed and unprotected, this will have to be dealt with. This could be as simple as a few tuns of insulating tape. The lockbolt carries a seal and pushes against the spindle during bearing extraction, so the spindle needs to have the correct profile, which can hopefully be obtained using the SG method.

[Cyclothesist]

for many years my default pedal was PD M515, so I have several sets which I'm planning to upgrade (although whether I shall ever be able to use them again is another matter). The planned upgrades comprise the following;

1) titivating the bearings. The cone surfaces (including the spindle) are to be lightly ground, then polished. The cups will just be polished. Polishing in this case comprises several steps, each to be carried out whilst the workpiece rotates. First, use abrasive papers in sequence, eg. 200, 400, 600, 1000 grit. Next, use a suitable polishing compound (eg. solvol autosol) to make the surfaces perfect. Finally clean everything scrupulously.

2) make new jaw pivot pins. These are threaded M5 near the top, have a plain shank about 4.0 mm dia., and a 'cheesehead' (JIS) top. Having had the top of a screw come off without warning, I have crafted a set of replacements before. IIRC I started with a M5 x 50 mm stainless caphead set screw, and I used a lathe to make it fit for purpose. This did work OK, but it was very slow and rather difficult to do well. Then I noticed that PD-M747 used grub screws instead, which can be replicated by SGing a length of M5 stainless studding; far easier.

3) hard-face the jaws. Using MIG welding and carefully selected pre-placed wires, I plan to make a wear resistant W,Mo,Cr,Ni steel in situ. This is to be ground to shape subsequently.

4) Fit the ultimate lube port. After many years of thinking about it, I have come up with what I believe to be an optimal solution. In this, a CSK hole about 10 mm deep is tapped M4, ready to accept a CSK screw. This hole need not penetrate or link to any bearing cavity directly. It can be drilled parallel to a bearing cavity. A second, linking hole is then added. This hole is drilled with a drill bit that is just sub-straw sized. Suppose that an aerosol straw measures 1.55 mm. The hole could be drilled with a 1.50 mm drill bit. This second hole starts just beneath the CSK, is angled at about 45 degrees wrt the first hole, and penetrates into a bearing cavity. If the drill bit is slightly angled, rotated at full speed in the hole and then orbited, the result should be (provided you have not overdone it and broken the drill bit) that the hole is now slightly hourglass-shaped, perhaps 1.6 mm top and bottom but still 1.5 mm in the middle. This tapered hole should permit a suitably sized straw to seal well, allowing the bearings to be purged/relubricated in situ with great ease. It is expected that the bearings are first cleaned/purged using a GT85-esque spray via a straw, then relubricated eg. with SBG via a straw. If a more conventional grease gun is used (eg. with SFG) then a seal can be made using a nozzle tip/rubber ring in the CSK. By careful examination of what comes out during the clean/purge phase, it should be possible to determine the health (or otherwise) of the bearings,

5) Fit improved trim. As standard, PD-M515 has plastic caps on the pedal ends; these have a pastrycutter shaped interface, and are retained from the inside by M5 threaded 'cheesehead' (JIS) screws. The plastic caps also cover a now-superfluous vent hole which should be plugged with a piece of cocktail stick. A standard M5 nut can be given a tapered version of the pastrycutter profile, which (along with epoxy resin) ensures that the nut won't pull out of the pedal when installed from the inside. The plastic cap is to be replaced by a similarly sized piece of self-adhesive blue reflexite, with a central 5 mm hole. A white-coloured washer, approx 13.5 mm OD, will lie under the head of a red-coloured Al M5 button head screw, so as to make things that look like roundels. This improved trim ought to be slightly lighter, less likely to be damaged in a prang, as well as more repairable.

6) Fit improved lockbolts, and modify the spindles. As standard, PD-515 uses long plastic lockbolts and spacers. It is proposed that these are swapped out for shorter XTR lockbolts in Al, to be fitted without spacers. To make this work well, it is envisaged that the external profile of the pedal spindle will need to be made more like that of PD-M540 etc. although the revised PD-M515 spindle will retain it's spanner flats and solid centre. Because more of the pedal spindle will be exposed and unprotected, this will have to be dealt with. This could be as simple as a few tuns of insulating tape. The lockbolt carries a seal and pushes against the spindle during bearing extraction, so the spindle needs to have the correct profile, which can hopefully be obtained using the SG method.

Ingenious and a lot of work. Are the M515s worth the effort compared to say switching to the M520? The M520s just seem to last and last requiring only the odd grease purge. I have M520s over 10yrs old and still going strong.

[Brucey]

PD-M515 uses the same bearings and spindle as PD-M520. I have several sets of both pedal types. Later versions of PD-M747 shared binding parts with PD-M515, so arguably the latter is an XT pedal in disguise. FWIW any SPD pedal will benefit from the addition of a similar lube port near the outer bearing, since with it, the bearings can be cleaned and regreased very quickly indeed.

[Cyclothesist]

PD-M515 uses the same bearings and spindle as PD-M520. I have several sets of both pedal types. Later versions of PD-M747 shared binding parts with PD-M515, so arguably the latter is an XT pedal in disguise. FWIW any SPD pedal will benefit from the addition of a similar lube port near the outer bearing, since with it, the bearings can be cleaned and regreased very quickly indeed.

Good to know. Thanks Brucey. Those M747s must be around 30yrs old now.

[Brucey]

.... Those M747s must be around 30yrs old now.....

that is about right. PD-M747 was in production through the time that shimano had a change of heart re. cleats in about 1997. I've seen two different PD-M747 variants, with different rear jaws; 'early' ones have the narrower rear jaws that suit the first version of the cleat. 'Later' versions had the same jaws as PD-M515, ie. with a larger rear jaw radius, to better suit the revised cleat.

It isn't very difficult to modify the rear jaw of an early SPD pedal,eg. via grinding; if you don't do this, the combination of old pedals and new cleats does 'work' but is liable to give you no 'float'. Some pedals eg. PD-A525 always need modification, because they were only ever intended to be used with the earlier cleat.

[rogerzilla]

M747 was supposedly the first race-orientated SPD, meaning they shaved a lot of bulk off compared to the previous top-line M737 (which is a beast).

[mattheus]

3) hard-face the jaws. Using MIG welding and carefully selected pre-placed wires, I plan to make a wear resistant W,Mo,Cr,Ni steel in situ. This is to be ground to shape subsequently.

Doesn't everyone do this??

[Brucey]

3) hard-face the jaws. Using MIG welding and carefully selected pre-placed wires, I plan to make a wear resistant W,Mo,Cr,Ni steel in situ. This is to be ground to shape subsequently.

Doesn't everyone do this??

not as far as I know

[Mtb tourer]

Time pedals user for last 30years. My knees are pleased . Time have a newer type of cleat , it's called easy release.
Time sold the pedal side of the company, when the cleats are well worn they still work and are easier to click out.
Cleats last forever and it's normal to have to drill the bolt heads off when replacing. Not sure about the change of ownership , easy cleats may be a way to increase sales as they may not last as long.