Ghosts

[pwa]

In spite of many 'scientific' investigations the whole subject remains incoherent and without any solid progress.
Witnesses are unreliable, and interpret the unexplained with any preconception which lurks in their mind. We are quite suggestible.

I'm not going to disagree. However due to the amount of cctv cameras around, some strange footage is being uploaded to the net. Here's one where a wheel chair manages to wheel itself up an inclined plane. Normally I would view such clips as prank.. however the hospital staff seem genuinely perplexed at the whole thing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hu5ClrztEQ

I don't know how that happened. But supernatural explanations would be very low on my list of possibilities. Wind would be top. Possibly followed by a prank. And if I were in any doubt at all, I would dismiss the ghostly wheelchair user on the grounds that the movement did not resemble someone sat in the chair and propelling it with their hands. The movement was too smooth for that.

[roubaixtuesday]

FWIW,I'm always skeptical of those with the attitude of "it's beyond the laws of physics" etc,so can't be true.As if humanity knows everything there is to know about everything,when we clearly do not.

Currently there is a hole in our understanding of physics which goes like this....
..if you take an atom, spilt it in two part (really pair of sharp scissors?) and then move one half of the atom to a different location and then reverse the flow of the electrons on the atom, then instantaneously the electrons reverse their flow in the other half without an action taken to do so.
Scientific thinking is that even if you spilt the atom,its possible that it remains connected, and for that atom to remain connected, then that suggests further dimensions beyond the usual, height, length, width and time. If there are other dimensions layered onto the dimensions which we are aware, then all bets about the physical world should operate are off...

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-th ... ot-explain

Even if the premise were correct, the conclusion in the final sentence certainly doesn't follow from it.

[deeferdonk]

rather appropriately I heard a story about a headless cyclist ghost from a live show at Leicester comedy festival at the weekend. Found a rendition of the story online.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/stafford ... fvHfLgjnjE

Maybe one for the Helmet discussion thread!

[reohn2]

FWIW,I'm always skeptical of those with the attitude of "it's beyond the laws of physics" etc,so can't be true.As if humanity knows everything there is to know about everything,when we clearly do not.

Currently there is a hole in our understanding of physics which goes like this....
..if you take an atom, spilt it in two part (really pair of sharp scissors?) and then move one half of the atom to a different location and then reverse the flow of the electrons on the atom, then instantaneously the electrons reverse their flow in the other half without an action taken to do so.
Scientific thinking is that even if you spilt the atom,its possible that it remains connected, and for that atom to remain connected, then that suggests further dimensions beyond the usual, height, length, width and time. If there are other dimensions layered onto the dimensions which we are aware, then all bets about the physical world should operate are off...

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-th ... ot-explain

Thinking about it some more,a "multiverse" would explain a lot about the unexplained.

[reohn2]

......... I don't believe in ghosts or aliens ( well definitely not here though some at work think I'm one for riding into work on a bicycle ) or UFO's from other worlds.

See mine and CT's posts on the "multiverse" as a theory that could explain both phenomena.
I'm currently reading a well researched book about UFOs,which isn't the usual sensationalist clap trap.It explains how many European and other world wide countries military treat the phenomena as a real problem and worry about mid air collisions.

[Jdsk]

Even if the premise were correct, the conclusion in the final sentence certainly doesn't follow from it.

Totally agree.

That sounded like an attempt to describe quantum entanglement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

Which ran into the usual problem: you can't describe quantum properties by thinking of them as classical properties but with some extra bits bolted on. The best simple explanation of this that I know of is in Feynman's introductory lectures.

Jonathan

PS: This type of explanation of humans reporting ghosts reminds me of the God of the gaps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

[reohn2]

Would you agree that humanity has partial knowledge?
eg;we know what we know but don't know what we don't.

[Jdsk]

Of course there are many things that people don't understand.

But the "example" is wrong: there are plenty of things where we know that we don't know. Dark matter is the currently fashionable example: we have repeatable observations on the subject but no adequate explanation. Which is why it's completely different from human reports of ghosts.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

Thinking about it some more,a "multiverse" would explain a lot about the unexplained.

In the scientific sense of the word, it most definitely would not.

The idea that there is a multiverse that "leaks" reality like shadows of ghosts from one universe to another is not part of any scientific discourse. That sense is just a story, like Narnia is just a story.

[Jdsk]

...
The idea that there is a multiverse that "leaks" reality like shadows of ghosts from one universe to another is not part of any scientific discourse. That sense is just a story, like Narnia is just a story.

Yes.

And it's very interesting why people latch onto pseudoscience to explain things.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

...
The idea that there is a multiverse that "leaks" reality like shadows of ghosts from one universe to another is not part of any scientific discourse. That sense is just a story, like Narnia is just a story.

Yes.

And it's very interesting why people latch onto pseudoscience to explain things.

Jonathan

Narrative is far more powerful than reality.

That includes to me of course; the narrative of science as the best way to explain our reality is compelling, even to people whose understanding of it is poor.

[reohn2]

Thanks for the replies and agreeing that we simply don't know everything there is to know.
But claiming we know there isn't a multiverse based on incomplete evidence is to claim the opposite,honest science is theory until proven.
As for ghosts I try to keep an open mind,UFOs/UAPs OTOH I'm convinced,because I've seen one*,are real and there's too much solid evidence even amidst the white noise of sensationalism and sales.

*you may try to tell me there's a rational explanation,weather ballons,figment of my imagination,etc,etc but I know what I saw,solid metalic orbs with no wings or other appendages aren't supposed to fly not at the speed that one was going anyway.
Where these strange things are from is anyone's guess and I wouldn't wish to speculate other than to say a multiverse is a possible explanation.

[roubaixtuesday]

Thanks for the replies and agreeing that we simply don't know everything there is to know.
But claiming we know there isn't a multiverse is to claim the opposite,honest science is theory until proven.
As for ghosts I try to keep an open mind,UFOs/UAPs OTOH I'm convinced,because I've seen one*,are real and there's too much solid evidence even amidst the white noise of sensationalism and sales.

*you may try to tell me there's a rational explanation but I know otherwise solid metalic orbs with no wings or other appendages are supposed to fly not at the speed that one going anyway.
Where they're from is anyone's guess and I wouldn't wish to speculate other than to say a multiverse is a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" as scientifically conceived is emphatically not a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" conceived as "large objects moving between parallel universes" may be an explanation, but is magical fiction, not science.

[reohn2]

Thanks for the replies and agreeing that we simply don't know everything there is to know.
But claiming we know there isn't a multiverse is to claim the opposite,honest science is theory until proven.
As for ghosts I try to keep an open mind,UFOs/UAPs OTOH I'm convinced,because I've seen one*,are real and there's too much solid evidence even amidst the white noise of sensationalism and sales.

*you may try to tell me there's a rational explanation but I know otherwise solid metalic orbs with no wings or other appendages are supposed to fly not at the speed that one going anyway.
Where they're from is anyone's guess and I wouldn't wish to speculate other than to say a multiverse is a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" as scientifically conceived is emphatically not a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" conceived as "large objects moving between parallel universes" may be an explanation, but is magical fiction, not science.

Not our present understanding of science perhaps,there are many things we simply don't understand,we both could be wrong.

EDIT:- Try to explain the Rendalsham forest incident:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesha ... t_incident one among many well documented UFO encounters by the military and police

[roubaixtuesday]

Thanks for the replies and agreeing that we simply don't know everything there is to know.
But claiming we know there isn't a multiverse is to claim the opposite,honest science is theory until proven.
As for ghosts I try to keep an open mind,UFOs/UAPs OTOH I'm convinced,because I've seen one*,are real and there's too much solid evidence even amidst the white noise of sensationalism and sales.

*you may try to tell me there's a rational explanation but I know otherwise solid metalic orbs with no wings or other appendages are supposed to fly not at the speed that one going anyway.
Where they're from is anyone's guess and I wouldn't wish to speculate other than to say a multiverse is a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" as scientifically conceived is emphatically not a possible explanation.

A "multiverse" conceived as "large objects moving between parallel universes" may be an explanation, but is magical fiction, not science.

Not our present understanding of science perhaps,there are many things we simply don't understand,we both could be wrong.

"We could be wrong" covers literally every single alternative explanation.

"UFOs are the toenails of dinosaurs transported through time and transmuted into metal. They disappear when eaten by fairies "

"Science says time travel is impossible and fairies don't exist"

"Yes, but they could be wrong..."

Your favoured impossible multiverse explanation makes no more sense than dinosaur toenails and fairies.