Cycling & Max Heart Rate ?

[toontra]

My first ramp tests were done in hospital labs for research studies. As the saying goes, if it doesn't hurt you're not doing it right!

When I do them at home I try and get to that level but it's not the same without lab technicians shouting in your face

[axel_knutt]

How did you pay for it ?

Heart arrhythmia, but that's just part of it. My symptoms, the circumstances under which they developed, and the aggravating effect of more exercise have all the hallmarks of Overtraining Syndrome.

Excess exercise isn't measured in miles, hours, speed or HR, it's all about fatigue. If you develop a sufficiently high level of fatigue, and sustain it for long enough you can reach a point where you're intolerant of exercise and resting won't resolve it. The insidious thing is that the symptoms can be counterintuitive, so you become trapped in a cycle where declining performance incentivises more exercise instead of more rest.

The consequences of overtraining aren't necessarily cardiac.

I'd never even considered that an over developed heart muscle, would actually cause concern

Athlete’s heart and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy look very similar, but one can lead to sudden cardiac death and the other doesn't.

[gbnz]

Heart arrhythmia, but that's just part of it. My symptoms, the circumstances under which they developed, and the aggravating effect of more exercise have all the hallmarks of Overtraining Syndrome.

[/quote]

Must have been doing 110%, over some time ? Had 10yr's as an exercise/mile "fanatic", that finished by 2012 (Nb. Though felt fantastic to have 2025's first post ride / weights "burn" last week - worth the effort )

[mattheus]

I think those formulas still underestimate for fit people.

No more than average height figures will underestimate the height of many tall people.

[Nearholmer]

And, jdsk usually interjects at this stage to point out that this forum provides a poor sample for these purposes, because the members are almost certainly not a typical sample of the population.

Think bell-curve, with the participants here likely to be at least somewhat “right shifted”.

[Jdsk]

Well, I used to... but I've given up. : - (

But... it would be a good idea and might even help the conversation if people saying "maximum heart rate" included which of the several different meanings they are using.

Jonathan

[axel_knutt]

The % of maxHR recommendations for exercise levels are sound

Taking a percentage of MHR is just one way of calculating training zones, there are several others. I think the Karvonen method is generally accepted as better because it takes into account resting heart rate as well.

I think those formulas still underestimate for fit people. As rareposter said, you need to do a proper ramp test under professional supervision to determine your real MHR. It can also be found through a cardio stress test in hospital under the guidance of a cardiologist.

I've had a couple of Bruce tests at Broomfield cardiology, they terminate the test when your HR reaches 220-age. On the first one I was tempted to ask if we could keep going, but in hindsight I'm very glad I didn't.

Must have been doing 110%, over some time?

No, as I said above, overtraining isn't about HR, it's about the accumulation of fatigue, even golfers can get OTS. The less fit you are the less exercise it takes to get fatigued. People who have few other interests outside of their sport are more prone to OTS because they are more likely to spend more time exercising.

... it would be a good idea and might even help the conversation if people saying "maximum heart rate" included which of the several different meanings they are using.

Presumably two definitions might be:

Maximum you can achieve
and
Maximum you should achieve?

[[XAP]Bob]

I think those formulas still underestimate for fit people.

Yep - I used to exceed 200bpm for extended periods back when I was doing serious swimming training for double digit hours a week.
I could keep it up for well over ten minutes on cross trainers etc... it must have been substantially lower when I did serious distances though (9k in 3 hours is still a high workload, but not *that* high)

No way I'd be able to do anything like that any more, too many bits of me would rattle around and fall off...

[Audax67]

I think those formulas still underestimate for fit people. As rareposter said, you need to do a proper ramp test under professional supervision to determine your real MHR. It can also be found through a cardio stress test in hospital under the guidance of a cardiologist.

The Catch-22 being that during a cardio stress test in France they're not allowed to exceed 220-age.

I did have a VO2 Max test in 2005, where they told me that my optimal heart rate for blood oxygenation was 160 and my VO2 Max was 180% of the average for my age. Irritatingly they never told me the actual figure and I didn't know enough about it to ask.

Haven't had one since 'cos stents etc. in 2008.

[gbnz]

during a cardio stress test in France they're not allowed to exceed 220-age.

That's useful to know; it does indicate that hitting your max heart rate, isn't absolutely critical

My concern was that with all those dr/nhs /heart foundation thingies, suggesting that perhaps working out at 75 -85 % of ones max heart rate is the most one should do, perhaps it's actually harmful to build too large a heart muscle..............would result in one having to cycle around at a fraction of the normal speed

But if the actual max heart rate is the "absolute" max one should hit, that shouldn't be an issue - most of gym workout today was at 77 - 86%, didn't exceed 92-93% max heart rate, didn't come close to exceeding 100%

(And ? Useful reminder to always cycle to the gym.......heavy rain/bike work needed /forced "authority" to renew disabled bus pass last week........so 2nd time in 4.5 months taken the bus 44 miles to the gym......."saved" 45 minutes, despite being a direct / main A road bus)

[Jezrant]

A ramp test in a sports clinic and a cardio stress test in a hospital cardiology ward are obviously very different things. A cardiologist can however give a patient in the second scenario good advice about heart rate and exercise if asked.

[axel_knutt]

Yep - I used to exceed 200bpm for extended periods back when I was doing serious swimming training for double digit hours a week.
I could keep it up for well over ten minutes

Some people smoke all their lives and don't get lung cancer, that doesn't mean it's healthy.
The day after 10-15 hours of AF at up to 260bpm I used to feel an aching stiffness though the centre of my chest that was the same as I often felt during and after cycling.

A cardiologist can however give a patient in the second scenario good advice about heart rate and exercise if asked.

Maybe they could, but do they?
The consultant in A&E told me to knock the cycling on the head until after I'd seen cardiology, but then cardiology accused me of sabotaging their tests by following the advice. So I resumed exercise and was back on an ambulance again within 48 hours, but they still deny it's anything to do with the exercise.

[Jezrant]

Following the same logic, one disappointing experience in cardiology, doesn’t mean it’s always like that.

[[XAP]Bob]

Yep - I used to exceed 200bpm for extended periods back when I was doing serious swimming training for double digit hours a week.
I could keep it up for well over ten minutes

Some people smoke all their lives and don't get lung cancer, that doesn't mean it's healthy.
The day after 10-15 hours of AF at up to 260bpm I used to feel an aching stiffness though the centre of my chest that was the same as I often felt during and after cycling.

It was only ever high intensity proper work that got it that high, and it came down fast when I stopped - so I wasn't concerned about the high rate, it was pumping well, and moving alot of oxygen around...

But I absolutely agree that much training is rarely healthy, as a simple example my body fat percentage was way below healthy levels.

[scottm]

It can be quite difficult, and very unpleasant, to reach one's maximum heart rate.

If the aim is to calculate training zones, then a better approach is to test for your functional threshold heart rate (the theoretical rate you could maintain for an hour, although in testing you don't actually need to perform for an hour.) This is the recommended approach on British Cycling website; they explain the test and provide a calculator to work out your zones.

I could count on my fingers the occasions I've hit what I believe to be my max heart rate (within 2 or 3 bpm.)