Ghosts

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cycle tramp
Posts: 4984
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by cycle tramp »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 12:15pm
reohn2 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 12:11pm You appear to be saying anything that isn't proven to your scientific satisfaction is magic and fairies.
No, what I'm saying is that any explanation which relies on phenomena outside of known science is no more rational than magic and fairies.
Depending on your experience of faeries and magic.. and by magic I also mean the power of prayer....
..my own patron Saint, as befits someone who rides a bike with 26" wheels, freewheel and drum brakes is Saint Jude, Patron Saint of Lost Causes.. and by default, I believe lost things... there have been a number of times when I have lost things from house keys, to bike parts and found he is pretty useful at find stuff when a petitioned for assistance..
...those who are more... ancient have the Norse Gods and so on..
Albert Einstein, formulated the universal link between energy and matter E=MC2, e being energy, m being matter, c being the universal constant (speed of light) which suggests that matter is only energy scrunched into a different vibration...
If we accept that everything around us, our bodies, homes, bikes and even planets are simply compressed energy, then the idea that the laws of physics remain forever unaltered or un-influenced by other forces seems less likely....
Last edited by cycle tramp on 11 Feb 2025, 7:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
cycle tramp
Posts: 4984
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by cycle tramp »

Stevek76 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 5:42pm
I don't particularly disbelieve in ghosts etc as my views on most such matters tend agnostic rather than absolute doesn't exist. However I've yet to see any events that come even anywhere close to actual reliable evidence and particularly the credibility of the older various claims is ever further diminished by the sheer absence of actual good evidence now. The simple fact is that there are high quality cameras everywhere these days and widespread CCTV recording a huge portion of the planet. So much so that when cool phenomena occur, like large firebally meteors, it's not uncommon for multiple angles of it to end up on the internet within hours.

So either aliens and ghosts have reduced their visit frequent in line with that increase in coverage or those older ones, just as many current ones, was just a mix of the usual lights, atmospheric phenomena, military shenanigans, weather balloons and hoaxes/pranks.
I think everyone just got bored with cctv ghost clips - yet another from a hospital featuring a wheelchair moving without any obvious influence - Yawn https://www.newsflare.com/video/669472/ ... ital-floor
Although the wind noise, the water on the floor and lack of surprise by those films, suggest that this one is more wind powered...
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by PDQ Mobile »

A farting ghost.
reohn2
Posts: 46186
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by reohn2 »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 6:50pm
reohn2 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 4:54pm
So one hoax means everything is smoke and mirrors...........
The article doesn't say it's a hoax, and I have made no such claim. Carry on!
Sorry my bad,I read the bold para and assumed it was,busy ATM I'll read it in full later.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
cycle tramp
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Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by cycle tramp »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 8:32pm A farting ghost.
Indeed... we mostly credit apparitions as the main evidence of haunting.. unexplained smells, toast, matches, flower scents are seldom mentioned.
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
pwa
Posts: 18490
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by pwa »

reohn2 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 11:25am
[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 11:05am The universe isn't infinitely old...
That's only due to current theoretic understanding of the universe.The big bang theory?
And my own definition of time does not require the existence of stuff. So if the Universe had a begining, there was time before the Universe. Admittedly, a rather boring and uneventful time. With no begining.
reohn2
Posts: 46186
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by reohn2 »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 6:50pm
reohn2 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 4:54pm
So one hoax means everything is smoke and mirrors...........
The article doesn't say it's a hoax, and I have made no such claim. Carry on!
I've now read the article and as you say timely.
The article claims amongst other things that the photo is the best UFO photo ever,I'd disagree,there are others as good showing disc like craft of unknown origin.
The UK MoD and US CIA didn't,until very recently,like photos or reports of UFO/UAP incidents being reported in the media and would try to debunk any such incidents as clouds,balloons,reflctions or fakes and would ridicule any pilots who reported such sightings that got through their secrecy net on the grounds that they may cause panic amongst the general public.
However as I posted previously other countries around the world aren't as short sighted and encourage such sightings to be reported so they can learn more about them.
BTW Nick Pope mentioned in the article is a level headed source of UFO/UAP sightings if you are interested in the subject,I haven't read his book but have come across him in other genuinely sober books on the subject.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
Posts: 46186
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by reohn2 »

Stevek76 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 5:42pm A cursory search seems to find plenty refutable about Rendalsham.

I don't particularly disbelieve in ghosts etc as my views on most such matters tend agnostic rather than absolute doesn't exist. However I've yet to see any events that come even anywhere close to actual reliable evidence and particularly the credibility of the older various claims is ever further diminished by the sheer absence of actual good evidence now. The simple fact is that there are high quality cameras everywhere these days and widespread CCTV recording a huge portion of the planet. So much so that when cool phenomena occur, like large firebally meteors, it's not uncommon for multiple angles of it to end up on the internet within hours.

So either aliens and ghosts have reduced their visit frequent in line with that increase in coverage or those older ones, just as many current ones, was just a mix of the usual lights, atmospheric phenomena, military shenanigans, weather balloons and hoaxes/pranks.
My bold
Got any links?

As regards UFO/UAPs It's true there are many fakes,easily explainable or mistaken sightings of UFOs as there'll be the totally closed minded skeptics,but when everything is sifted through there's a small minority of incidents and encounters that cannot be debunked,it's these that are the unexplainable.

For the record,I don't claim to know where these craft come from.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
Posts: 46186
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by reohn2 »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 8:32pm A farting ghost.
All just hot air? :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
Posts: 18490
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by pwa »

My main obstacle to believing in alien sightings is that any visitors would have an impossibly long journey, and when they get to Earth they seem content to just muck about over New Mexico.
cycle tramp
Posts: 4984
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by cycle tramp »

Stevek76 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 5:42pm The simple fact is that there are high quality cameras everywhere these days and widespread CCTV recording a huge portion of the planet. So much so that when cool phenomena occur, like large firebally meteors, it's not uncommon for multiple angles of it to end up on the internet within hours.

So either aliens and ghosts have reduced their visit frequent in line with that increase in coverage or those older ones, just as many current ones, was just a mix of the usual lights, atmospheric phenomena, military shenanigans, weather balloons and hoaxes/pranks.
General I find the reports from the military to be the most reliable- after all (a) they have to report these sightings (b) they are then usually confirmed by others in real time (c) there is no reason to fake them...
..in which case the number of unexplained ufo sightings have increased and whilst many have been identified the news item below contains clips of those objects which have not been https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... 252340.amp
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
cycle tramp
Posts: 4984
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by cycle tramp »

Stevek76 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 5:42pm A cursory search seems to find plenty refutable about Rendalsham.

I don't particularly disbelieve in ghosts etc as my views on most such matters tend agnostic rather than absolute doesn't exist. However I've yet to see any events that come even anywhere close to actual reliable evidence and particularly the credibility of the older various claims is ever further diminished by the sheer absence of actual good evidence now.

So either aliens and ghosts have reduced their visit frequent in line with that increase in coverage or those older ones, just as many current ones, was just a mix of the usual lights, atmospheric phenomena, military shenanigans, weather balloons and hoaxes/pranks.
That's fine.... but you're going to need to prove to me that every ufo and ghost sighting was any of the above, to convince me.
And given the body of evidence from pilot sightings to sound and cctv/video recordings its going to be an impossible task, which means that somewhere some are genuine, which means we have some gaps in our knowledge... which is actually a harder thing for members of our society to admit. So generally we don't...
'People should not be afraid of their governments, their governments should be afraid of them'
Alan Moore - V for Vendetta
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 7043
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by roubaixtuesday »

..
Last edited by roubaixtuesday on 12 Feb 2025, 7:28am, edited 1 time in total.
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 7043
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by roubaixtuesday »

There are so many fundamental problems with believing they are alien spacecraft it would take many pages to list them.

A few.

1. Given the prohibition on faster than light travel, where do they come from? Where do they go back to?

2. Why did they suddenly start in the 1950s?

3. Why are they both brilliant at hiding yet simultaneously allow themselves to be seen?

4. Why are they hiding at all?

5. Why is there no consistency in their form or time of appearance?

6. Why is there visual but never physical evidence of them?

There's a likely simple answer - the power of narrative.

Aliens make a great story. Parallel universes and unknown technology make great stories. The human mind is built to construct narratives around uncertainty.

A messy mixture of fraud, mistaken identity, atmospheric phenomena, meteorites, psychological suggestion etc is a far less compelling narrative.
deeferdonk
Posts: 413
Joined: 11 May 2019, 2:50pm

Re: Ghosts

Post by deeferdonk »

pwa wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 10:12pm
reohn2 wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 11:25am
[XAP]Bob wrote: 11 Feb 2025, 11:05am The universe isn't infinitely old...
That's only due to current theoretic understanding of the universe.The big bang theory?
And my own definition of time does not require the existence of stuff. So if the Universe had a begining, there was time before the Universe. Admittedly, a rather boring and uneventful time. With no begining.
But time is a physical property of our universe, so we can't say time existed prior to the big bang.
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