BEVs

[UpWrong]

Arguably the best value non-Chinese BEV available, and giving the Chinese a run for their money. And with an LFP battery, I'd be happy to buy a used one in 3 or 4 years time at a fraction of the new price. Starting from £22,990:

[UpWrong]

This caught my eye. Amongst all the announcements of solid-state batteries from Chinese companies, it appears Stellantis are backing lithium-sulphur batteries:
https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/pres ... -batteries
https://zetaenergy.com/
If they've backed the right horse it could be a big boost to the company and progress towards more affordable EVs.

[Carlton green]

Which, the consumer association, have recently put out some battery life data collected by them from their membership - who might or might not be representative of the population as a whole.

At first glance more recent batteries have an initial loss (of 3%) and then stable capacity whilst slightly older batteries loose 1% per year; to my mind that’s quite encouraging, but if you buy a car to keep for its whole life then be sure to buy a battery that’s say 15% bigger (in normally usable or working capacity) than you expect to need.

As is too often the case guarantees have weasel words attached, so it’ll be hard to claim on battery guarantees and the definition of faulty is ridiculously generous to the manufacturer.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/re ... __20250214

[Biospace]

... if you buy a car to keep for its whole life then be sure to buy a battery that’s say 15% bigger (in normally usable or working capacity) than you expect to need.

That's exactly the rule of thumb advice many are looking for, I suspect. The greater the disparity in range to requirement, the greater the waste - financial, environmental and social. Time and experience should bring this figure down (which is likely far more than 15%) as will a high speed recharging network with high levels of redundancy, although I imagine there will be many who average under 40 miles a day for most of the year but who buy a car with a battery (not quite) large enough to take the family on holiday - rather than realise electrical recharging doesn't need to be unpleasant or inconvenient.

My phone is presently edging to the point where its battery will begin to deteriorate quickly but I’ve no need for a newer phone, its hardware is superb - should I spend £100 on a new battery, or put that to a new/er phone with more battery and software life remaining? A new version would cost the best part of £1000, used prices can at times make that look good value.

The battery is the single most dirty part of an EV and it’s clear it’s the component which most concerns people looking to buy a BEV. The consumer is placed in a potentially very weak position with the combination of expensive battery replacement and a lifespan which can be dictated remotely through software changes.

Is what many see as a treadmill growing into a sports model? And is an EV battery a consumable item like a clutch or shock absorber, or a component which should last the vehicle’s lifetime, like a car engine? Most can find £1000 for a new clutch, a new battery is several time more.

[[XAP]Bob]

Frankly requirements change so much over time that I'm not sure it's all that useful.
Buy a vehicle that meets your needs - it probably only needs to completely cover your needs for 360 days in a year, particularly if it has 200kW+ charging capability. That's significantly more important than overall range.

[Biospace]

Doesn't meeting your needs depend on knowing your requirements? These change over time, the British replace their cars more often than most other Europeans and often not because of practical requirements.

Given such a large proportion of the cost of a BEV is the battery, a simple rule of thumb along the lines of "regularly needed range plus a third" could save many people from wasting a lot of their hard earned money on more expensive and heavy cells than they really need.

With 200kW charging, buying larger than necessary batteries grows ever more of a waste.

[[XAP]Bob]

Define regularly... Once a year is regular, but shouldn't be the determining factor if that 500 mile journey is the only time in the year you drive more than thirty miles.

I'd suggest that anywhere in the 10-20 days of "charging needed" in a year is OK... but that you probably want ~150 miles of usable (i.e. 200 of real) range for those long journey days.
Of course a second car basically never does those long journeys, so much lighter/lower range options are good.

[UpWrong]

10 mins but very different from other reviews in the way it's done. The self-parking towards the end is rather scary. The interactions with the "assistants" is entertaining and informative:

[Biospace]

I liked the approach in the review above, watched in conjunction with the Harry's Garage video posted earlier a potential buyer would cover a lot of the groundwork. The most basic model will likely make most sense.

Define regularly... Once a year is regular, but shouldn't be the determining factor if that 500 mile journey is the only time in the year you drive more than thirty miles.

I'd suggest that anywhere in the 10-20 days of "charging needed" in a year is OK... but that you probably want ~150 miles of usable (i.e. 200 of real) range for those long journey days.
Of course a second car basically never does those long journeys, so much lighter/lower range options are good.

"Regularly" - I used it to mean customary, usual, or normal, you could add "reasonably frequently" to help clarify but of course then we'd be considering what reasonable is, in the context.

Approaching battery size from the number of journeys which require recharging on route, or perhaps the proportion of same is a good way of doing it. Where would the acceptable upper limit be for recharging time I wonder, to tip the balance for people actively wanting a battery car?

[roubaixtuesday]

Where would the acceptable upper limit be for recharging time I wonder, to tip the balance for people actively wanting a battery car?

I don't think it's the recharging time per se, it's more "will a charger be available" that's the issue.

The scenario is being stuck on a long journey for significant time waiting for a charger.

A bit like public transport: it's no so much the speed of the service, more the frequency which is most important.

And I think there are credible reasons to believe this is a very hard problem to solve eg going away at Christmas, when everyone else is too.

[Biospace]

I don't think it's the recharging time per se, it's more "will a charger be available" that's the issue.

The scenario is being stuck on a long journey for significant time waiting for a charger.

A bit like public transport: it's no so much the speed of the service, more the frequency which is most important.

And I think there are credible reasons to believe this is a very hard problem to solve eg going away at Christmas, when everyone else is too.

I agree. There will be particular difficulties in establishing sufficient capacity for sufficient fast chargers in more remote tourist areas. Perhaps some form of energy rationing will be necessary at the busiest times.

[[XAP]Bob]

Fast charging is the solution to both problems really...

There are plenty of chargers around, I haven't had to queue at a charger in ages - my wife has arrived and taken the last stall once last year, but another vehicle left within a few minutes anyway.
Yes, we'll need more at motorway services, but there are more and more appearing just off the motorway in other locations... and they're often much more pleasant.

The way in which you pick a charger is a little different than a dino juice pump, but there is much more information available.

Perhaps some form of energy rationing will be necessary at the busiest times.

Tesla already do this... they have an "overstay" charge which only applies if you stay at a charger when the site is full (or nearly full), and you have finished charging. It works best with cars or charge networks which have remote data...

The last time I waited for a charger was at Exeter about 18 months ago (for about ten minutes, significantly less time than it took the wife and kids to go to the loo and grab some takeaway)... but there are a few things which mean that's not likely to be an issue again:
- There are far more options to the west of Exeter now, as well as other options very close (couple of miles) to the Exeter service station which are cheaper, and more pleasant, to visit.
- There are more chargers than ever at Exeter - would be good if the Tesla chargers were open to all, but there are probably commercial reasons they aren't allowed to compete with gridserve there

At that time there was one driver who was sat at a charger going from 97 to 100%, despite already having plenty of range to get to their final destination (which had overnight charging available).
That little bit of education is important - and it's now no longer the case that you have to get to or from wherever you're going in the south west from or to Exeter, there are a number of options further West...

Don't get me wrong, it's still a major service station which handles both directions of traffic, and it was the last relevant service station before Land's End (125 hilly miles), though now Cornwall Services at Victoria interchange (only 75 miles away) has reasonable charging options as well. There are also more options at traditional fuel stations, and other network locations (Jamaica Inn always used to make a convenient stop, but it's a while since I've needed it).

But that wait was when we were returning on a peak holiday transport day, and had a relatively short range (174 miles WLTP) and slow charging (max 50kW).
The traffic after Exeter was *awful*: it took another five or six hours to get to Weston super Mare (where we had a lovely fish and chips on the beach for tea) and made use of a local car park charger to top up whilst we did so. The advantage of bad traffic of course is that it significantly improves range...

I actually can't remember the time before that... but I'm sure there were some, and it's frustrating, but it's far less of an issue when you have data about which chargers are working and which are in use. And most networks are now sharing that data openly, so there are apps which can tell you what's available - so you might be cautious and stop a bit early if your preferred stop is showing as full.


Oh and to finish my rant... Exeter would do well to open up the bottom road as the exit road, rather than having cars queueing to exit the services across the EV charging bays... it doesn't happen often but it was part of the problem above... the queue to exit was past the entrance to the services building, it was chaos.

[Carlton green]

And the moral to this tale seems to be don’t travel to - or from - the West Country at the same time as everyone else because the roads will be choked and everyone else will also want to use the charging points you too need - well, there’ll be a scramble for something to get you moving onwards. If via sinful fossil fuel there are times when having 400 miles of range feels rather good, it’s one less thing on the journey to worry about.

Perhaps BEV’s are fine for long journeys - I’m becoming pretty sure that some are - but only so long as you are both mindful of range limitations and knowledgeable enough to work around recharging issues.

[Biospace]

There are apps which give live information on public chargers, theoretically reducing the chances of having to wait. Travelling on the M4 at peak holiday times is best avoided whatever the fuel!

For many it's hard to adjust to the modern way of doing things, as [XAP]Bob says there's a lot of information available for those who can make use of it and there's a generation growing up who have come to rely almost completely on this. In a conflict situation, it's going to be very easy to shut down an entire nation simply through disabling the electricity grid - should we be concerned about this?

[pete75]

Went ahaed and bought one today. Claimed 378 mile range so it'll probably do well over 300, at least in the summer.