BMX not road legal

[Tigerbiten]

You do realise that the law does allow for 'adapted' bikes? So whilst DSS's bike may not meet the letter of the law it is allowed by dispensation.

And i'm sure you know that the whole pedal reflector thing is a red herring as it only applies to new cycles sold with pedals. I've never bought a bike other than my first 'racer' that came with pedals.

Where is this stated in UK law ??
If an 'adapted' bike has two independent brakes it is legal, if not it's not.
So something like twin levers on one side to twin brakes is legal, but a single lever to twin brakes is not.

As for pedal reflector the UK law states to ride on the road at night .......
"Pedal reflectors, coloured amber, positioned so that one is plainly visible to the front and another to the rear of each pedal".
Nothing about being on a bike when bought, just on if ridden on the road at night.
It's why my recumbent trike is illegal to ride at night no matter what I do.
Even if fitted you couldn't see the rear ones from behind.

Luck ...........

[pjclinch]

Back when I trained trainers I actually raised the multiple independent brakes as an example.

"Can we let illegal bikes in a session?"
Everyone says no.
"Dame Sarah Storey's bike is not technically legal. If she showed up and wanted to join in your session would you tell her that wouldn't be possible because her bike isn't legal?"
Everyone has an "oh... it's not quite black and white after all!" expression on their face.

You do realise that the law does allow for 'adapted' bikes? So whilst DSS's bike may not meet the letter of the law it is allowed by dispensation.

And i'm sure you know that the whole pedal reflector thing is a red herring as it only applies to new cycles sold with pedals. I've never bought a bike other than my first 'racer' that came with pedals.

I'm not sure I do...
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/bike ... d-to-know/ seems fairly well rresearched and doesn't say anything retro-fit reflector-free pedals being kosher after dark.
Also see https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/whats ... -your-bike

I must admit I'm not up to speed an adapted bike legality. Where does such dispensation come from, and in what form?

Pete.

[foxyrider]

Back when I trained trainers I actually raised the multiple independent brakes as an example.

"Can we let illegal bikes in a session?"
Everyone says no.
"Dame Sarah Storey's bike is not technically legal. If she showed up and wanted to join in your session would you tell her that wouldn't be possible because her bike isn't legal?"
Everyone has an "oh... it's not quite black and white after all!" expression on their face.

You do realise that the law does allow for 'adapted' bikes? So whilst DSS's bike may not meet the letter of the law it is allowed by dispensation.

And i'm sure you know that the whole pedal reflector thing is a red herring as it only applies to new cycles sold with pedals. I've never bought a bike other than my first 'racer' that came with pedals.

I'm not sure I do...
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/bike ... d-to-know/ seems fairly well rresearched and doesn't say anything retro-fit reflector-free pedals being kosher after dark.
Also see https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/whats ... -your-bike

I must admit I'm not up to speed an adapted bike legality. Where does such dispensation come from, and in what form?

Pete.

Working in the trade for a couple of decades, these subjects came up fairly regularly, we did our research for compliance to cover ourselves as much as anything. I can't give you chapter and verse but at different times we had conversations with pretty much everyone from component suppliers to industry big wigs.

Pedal reflectors - all adult bikes ie anything with greater than 20" wheels, if supplied with pedals must have pedal reflectors fitted at point of sale. A bicycle is only a bicycle at point of sale if it can be ridden from the store, ie it includes pedals with the reflectors (not just pedal but front & rear too) Most top end bikes are sold without pedals so technically you are buying a custom build which falls outside of the need for reflectors at point of sale (most shops will however fit front & rear anyway). .... doesn't say anything retro-fit reflector-free pedals being kosher after dark. - nor does it say they aren't!.

The case of a BMX's legality in this respect is a bit grey, they fall under childrens bikes based on wheel size yet many are ridden by nominally adults - guess you argue that in court!

Adapted bikes are quite the can of worms, they should as far as possible meet the usual requirements, 2 independent brakes being the main area of concern. This is often covered by the simple expedient of using either an extra brake set up but not expected to be used (a hub brake for example) then running a double lever to give full braking in use much like many BMX's do for freestyle use.

Cyclesheme have this to say on the subject -This requires a coaster brake hub and a new rear wheel built around it. The other option is to have two brake levers on one side of the handlebar. That’s doable but awkward with standard levers. Better is to use a special brake like Hope’s Tech 3 Duo, which has independent levers on one brake lever body


.

[deeferdonk]

Pedal reflectors are a legal requirement if riding at night according to the highway code:

Rule 60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85).

[pjclinch]

Working in the trade for a couple of decades, these subjects came up fairly regularly, we did our research for compliance to cover ourselves as much as anything. I can't give you chapter and verse but at different times we had conversations with pretty much everyone from component suppliers to industry big wigs.

Pedal reflectors - all adult bikes ie anything with greater than 20" wheels, if supplied with pedals must have pedal reflectors fitted at point of sale. A bicycle is only a bicycle at point of sale if it can be ridden from the store, ie it includes pedals with the reflectors (not just pedal but front & rear too) Most top end bikes are sold without pedals so technically you are buying a custom build which falls outside of the need for reflectors at point of sale (most shops will however fit front & rear anyway). .... doesn't say anything retro-fit reflector-free pedals being kosher after dark. - nor does it say they aren't!.

I think we're at cross purposes. I'm on about the law about riding bikes after dark, not the law about what can be bought and sold.
That you can legally sell me a bike with no pedals and a pair of pedals that I fit on that have no reflectors doesn't mean I can legally ride it after lighting-up time.

The case of a BMX's legality in this respect is a bit grey, they fall under childrens bikes based on wheel size yet many are ridden by nominally adults - guess you argue that in court!

Another area, it would seem, where the law may be an ass. Bromptons have smaller wheels than BMXs, and it's not as if Moultons are a recent phenomenon!

Adapted bikes are quite the can of worms, they should as far as possible meet the usual requirements, 2 independent brakes being the main area of concern. This is often covered by the simple expedient of using either an extra brake set up but not expected to be used (a hub brake for example) then running a double lever to give full braking in use much like many BMX's do for freestyle use.

Cyclesheme have this to say on the subject -This requires a coaster brake hub and a new rear wheel built around it. The other option is to have two brake levers on one side of the handlebar. That’s doable but awkward with standard levers. Better is to use a special brake like Hope’s Tech 3 Duo, which has independent levers on one brake lever body

And from what I recall Dame Sarah's fails, with a single lever set up to activate the rear slightly in advance of the front.

Pete.

[thirdcrank]

I don't think there's much relevance in the regulations about the sale of new bikes (or more precisely bicycles) to what people do with a bike once it's theirs. Also, this is a subject where CJ's well-informed wisdom is still available online.

This closed the loophole by which retailers used to dodge this regulation by not including pedals.

I've picked that nugget but for anybody who wants to be sure the entire - very readable - article is here.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-libr ... egulations

The lighting regulations and the regulations about brakes have also been covered in detail on this forum with links to the legislation.

[Tigerbiten]

The case of a BMX's legality in this respect is a bit grey, they fall under childrens bikes based on wheel size yet many are ridden by nominally adults - guess you argue that in court.

There's no "grey" area.
Pump the tyres up and then extend the saddle up to it's max safe height.
If the top of the saddle is now under 635mm from the ground then it's a child's bike and it only needs one brake.
But if the top of the saddle is over 635mm from the ground then it's not a child's bike and it needs two independent brakes.
There's no mention in the UK law about wheel size on a child's bikes, only saddle height.

I wonder if you cut the seat post of something like a Brompton such that a max extension the seat was under 635mm high then would it legally fall under the child bike section of the law and would you then only need one brake .......

Luck ...........

[Lance Dopestrong]

If your were cycle instrcturer would take child out on the road with such a bike?
I did not measure the max saddle height. In future I will do so.

Go down that rabbit hole and something goes wrong and you end up in a coroners court giving evidence then you're inevitably going to be asked to produce the calibration certificate for your tape measure that they know full well you wont have. Even when it goes well it's not nice being on the pointy end of questions at a coroners court, so the rule of CYA is very pertinent - if things have gone as far as taking measurements to ensure legality or compliance, then you need records of the equipment used, calibration, source, etc.

[Barrowman]

Picking up CJ Linch and Tigerbiten threads.

You mention Moultons, the Brakes on Pedal Cycles Regulations used to refer to wheel size, they were amended after the Moulton gained popularity.
And yes ,a Brompton with a shortened seat post would be legal with just one brake. ( In my opinion , as a trained (retired) enforcer )
Like a lot of Law, nothing is ever black or white (can I use that anology these days? ) but many shades of grey.
Ride a non goods carrying Trike ? 2 brakes on the front wheel (with 2 levers) is Legal . Boggles people's minds that one .
And Lance Dopestrong has a point about Coroners Court . Hopefully never happen but as an instructor you need to have that at the back of your mind .

[Flying Dodo]

Going back to the original question, when I used to teach Bikeability, for the handout sent to parents a couple of weeks before training, the notes specifically stated no BMX bikes.

Not because of a brake issue, but because often they're single speed and have ridiculously low saddles, meaning the student often just couldn't keep up when on the road.

[pjclinch]

Going back to the original question, when I used to teach Bikeability, for the handout sent to parents a couple of weeks before training, the notes specifically stated no BMX bikes.

Not because of a brake issue, but because often they're single speed and have ridiculously low saddles, meaning the student often just couldn't keep up when on the road.

That's not a Bikeability stricture though, that's someone at the delivery end making an executive decision, and IMHO not a very good one. While a super-low slung BMX may be far from ideal in many respects they're still okay for kids to ride round their local neighbourhoods with their friends.

Most of the practicalities of Bikeability are how to deal with right-of-way conflicts and there's no great need for sustained speed to do that. A BMX is typically set up for sprint efforts, so they're fine for most Bikeability. I had various examples in the classes I took and they were okay. If that is what a rider wants to ride then they should learn to ride on that bike, not something else that's not relevant to them.

A BMX ban says to lots of kids that cycling is only for people on "proper bikes", not like them, and they should only ride if it's on a bike they don't want to ride. That's a pretty terrible message for a programme that's meant to be as inclusive as reasonably possible.

Pete.

[Vorpal]

For what it's worth, I agree with pjclinch.

However, when kids seemed to struggle with them, we did sometimes ask if we could rise the saddles to max height on BMXs. That was usually enough.

p.s. this thread is a few years old

[pjclinch]

Meanwhile, here's a British Cycling pic of some Bikeability training in Manchester...



Pete.

[Bmblbzzz]

There must be plenty of kids who have a BMX and no access to another bike. It would seem counterproductive and silly to not allow them on the course.

[pjclinch]

There must be plenty of kids who have a BMX and no access to another bike. It would seem counterproductive and silly to not allow them on the course.

It would, though there is a tendency in some trainers to make their idea of perfect be the enemy of adequate - "two ways to do cycling, my way of the wrong way" types.
Another issue can be some instructors who can't deviate from an inflexible and outdated script, I think mainly a hangover from Cycling Proficiency rote teaching styles.

In both cases a combination of better courses, better QA and CPD are helping.

Pete.