Lightning P-38

[nobrakes]

My cascading tweaks continue.

I decided to go with pedal extenders rather than faff with BB which is already the recommended one for the Spa triple. I just have wonky legs. So then the Bachetta bars were too narrow. I've put my Nazca open cockpit bars on which are much more 'me' and significantly wider. While I was doing all that I decided that the higher cadence required for the shorter cranks warranted a closer spread on the rear cassette which was a 9 speed 11-40. I had an SLX 11 speed derailleur and 11-34 cassette in my box-o-parts. Also had a spare 11 speed chain from when I tried unsuccessfully to use an 11-46 on the Fuego with a double up front. Sourced a pair of fairly old but still working perfectly XT 3x11 trigger shifters for a good price. I always prefer the Shimano trigger shifters to Sram anyway so wasn't sad about removing the Sram stuff.

So then all the cables were a bit too short due to the bigger Nazca bars. I've done the shifters and they are working nicely, but I didn't have any spare brake cables with the right end type in my cable box, so now awaiting new cables.

Interestingly, I did a MAF session on Zwift last night on the P38 and it was an overall higher power output session and also easier to keep the power high as I fatigued. I'm seriously starting to think this is possibly the only bent design I want to keep hold of.

[UpWrong]

Sounds promising. Remember to carry a spare 11-speed connecting link on your rides. They really are single use only unlike the 9-speed connectors.

[nobrakes]

Yes always do. I have however reused 11 speed missing links for years with no adverse effects. But I always have a spare.

[Blondie]

Ha, good to see another P38 owner who might be using it on Audax. I use mine on everything Audax wise including the 1000km+ events. I run bar end shifters in friction mode. The rear shifter is the Microshift 12 speed version which has more cable pull to work with higher speed derailleurs if I choose.

I’ve been running Continental Contact Urban in 32mm up front, which has proven reliable and rolls well. I am trying the Contact Speed in 28mm at the moment to see how that goes. Rear I currently have Panaracer Agilist tubeless in 28mm. So far so good but think I prefer the Michelin Power Cup competition in 30mm.

I run a 48/36/26 triple up front and 11-34 or 12-36 cassette at the rear.

[nobrakes]

Ha, good to see another P38 owner who might be using it on Audax. I use mine on everything Audax wise including the 1000km+ events. I run bar end shifters in friction mode. The rear shifter is the Microshift 12 speed version which has more cable pull to work with higher speed derailleurs if I choose.

I’ve been running Continental Contact Urban in 32mm up front, which has proven reliable and rolls well. I am trying the Contact Speed in 28mm at the moment to see how that goes. Rear I currently have Panaracer Agilist tubeless in 28mm. So far so good but think I prefer the Michelin Power Cup competition in 30mm.

I run a 48/36/26 triple up front and 11-34 or 12-36 cassette at the rear.

Yes it was your posts on UpWrong's P38 thread that made me seriously consider the P38 again, so thanks for posting your positive comments at that time

I'm still getting it fettled to the way I like it, it's almost there. The bike currently has a Shredda 40C on the front but that will no doubt be replaced with a Contact Urban when it wears out.

I'll post a pic when it's done. It's been way more change than I intended, but it will be worth it once it's finished I think. I'm going to try and get a 100 miler in on it before the winter if I can find the time just to try it on a longer ride. Hopefully next year I will do some audaxing on it.

[Blondie]

Like you I had a more aero dynamic recumbent first, but found spotting pot holes much harder, and I had to put feet down at junctions and stop. On the P38 I can roll up and through. I am able to climb much better on my P38 compared to my old recumbent. A 33% hill on the P38:is a non issue and you don’t even get the front wheel wandering and issues of uprights on steep hills.

[nobrakes]

That period when it's just getting dark and your front light isn't yet bright enough to make a meaningful difference - I find that really bad on high racers for pothole spotting. The P38 really shines here, you can be nimble and zip through stuff a lot easier. But also at other times like when going through trees and the road is a mix of light and shade.

33% is quite steep! I've done a hill with 25% kickers and that was pretty brutal. Extremely stressful on a high racer due to the wobbly front wheel at 3 mph. Haven't yet tried that hill on the P38 but I'm sure it will be much easier.

[deejayen]

It'll be interesting to hear how you get on. I've often thought about importing a used P-38 from the USA, but for various reasons it's not happened - yet! I've tried quite a few different styles of recumbents, and so far they've all had their 'quirks', and I've not found one which really suits me.

[deejayen]

Interestingly, one of the positive reviews on the Lightning website includes this comment:-

"Because you are relatively low to the ground, you must be very careful about seeing and missing holes and rough spots in the road ahead of you. I find this still to be a problem; I am looking so far down the road that I too often miss the obstacles that are right in front of me. This can be hard on wheels, though I am fortunate that it hasn’t caused a wreck."

This seems a bit different to your and others' experiences, and to what I would have expected (due to the upright seat of the P-38). The reviewer hadn't riddent any other recumbent, so perhaps it's just a recumbent 'angle of view' thing, with the feet being further in front.

[nobrakes]

Interestingly, one of the positive reviews on the Lightning website includes this comment:-

"Because you are relatively low to the ground, you must be very careful about seeing and missing holes and rough spots in the road ahead of you. I find this still to be a problem; I am looking so far down the road that I too often miss the obstacles that are right in front of me. This can be hard on wheels, though I am fortunate that it hasn’t caused a wreck."

This seems a bit different to your and others' experiences, and to what I would have expected (due to the upright seat of the P-38). The reviewer hadn't riddent any other recumbent, so perhaps it's just a recumbent 'angle of view' thing, with the feet being further in front.

I guess it's just the newness of the new position to the reviewer. Maybe if you're used to staring at the road 3 yards in front of you on your road bike then it may seem harder, but the P38 is so upright and the BB is relatively low, so it's possibly the easiest recumbent I've ever tried (and one of the main reasons I like it so much).

I guess as a seasoned bent rider you get used to having that 'blind spot' under your BB / bars where you need to have factored in where things are on the road well in advance to avoid them, but on the P38 that blind spot is so much smaller it's basically a non issue. On high racers like the CHR it's massive, completely different. I have been out in the dark and found it no more problem weaving around crap with my Cateye volt 1200 on mid power setting than I do on my road bike. I wouldn't go down a hill at 40 mph in the dark maybe if I know the road is bad, but it's a very agreeable ride position and view for late night riding.

The reviewer might just be so new to recumbents that it's just different and they're not used to it yet. When I bought a used Specialized Tarmac after a couple of years of pure bent riding, mostly on the CHR with a 20 degree seat, I spent a few weeks feeling like I was going to topple over the front and land on my head on the road. It's quite an aggressive position and it took a while for my brain to get used to it.

[deejayen]

Yes, I suppose it's a bit like driving a car with a long bonnet!

A more upright seat (such as the P-38) definitely makes a recumbent feel more manageable in tricky situations. A highracer is obviously more aerodynamic when its seat is reclined, but a very reclined riding position can have drawbacks.

The only problem now is you've got me scanning the classifieds again for P-38s! I suspect it was your bike's previous owner who kindly let me have a short scoot around a car park on his P-38 a good few years ago. I did try to buy it, but he wasn't selling at that time! If you ever think about upgrading to a newer version, or an R-84, or an F-40 or F-90, then I might be interested...!

[nobrakes]

I got mine from a very kind gentleman in the states who made me an offer that I couldn't refuse even with postage from the US. I got lucky and wasn't expecting it at all, but it was and is much appreciated.

I, like you, had been watching online for a couple of years waiting for one to come up but the only one I ever saw was UpWrong's which would have been too small for me. Mine's an XL.

[nobrakes]

I think the bike is now sorted. A much bigger project than I had anticipated.

Replaced crankset with Spa triple with 160mm cranks to eliminate hard interference, had to put in a new BB at the same time
New Tektro mini V brakes. The bike came with mini v brakes and a set of original standard Vs, but one of the minis had an ovalled adjuster and I couldn't make the standard ones work without the front brake noodle interfering with the chain on the big ring, so I got a couple of cheap Tektro ones to keep things colour coordinated
New mudguards - front one went through some major surgery to make it fit.
Replaced 9 speed sram rear mech with an SLX 11 speed rear mech from the parts bin
Replaced the 11-40 9 speed cassette with an 11-34 105 11 speed from the parts bin
11 speed chain from the parts bin
Got a set of very old 3x11 XT trigger shifters off ebay and replaced the Sram ones
Replaced the Bachetta tweener bars with my wider Nazca ones
Some nice red bar tape just to give it a wee bit pizazz at the end



Now all I need is a combination of a free Saturday and some decent weather to get out and give it a really long ride to see how it goes. I haven't managed anything outside in weeks due to the weather and life stuff getting in the way.

[deejayen]

Wow, that's a beauty!

I imagine it will be great for typical Scottish audaxes. It's definitely got me thinking seriously about trying to buy one again.

[nobrakes]

Yes, highly recommend it!

It's funny, I avoided considering this bike for years because to my eye it looked like something that was designed in a byegone age and I wanted something modern and sexy, but when I actually tried it, it instantly felt like a really good fit. Upright, very comfortable seat, space frame and well triangulated BB is the winning combo I think. Of course you'll go faster when you get up to higher speeds on a more reclined recumbent but in all other ways I think the P38 is better. And for audax it just has to be fast enough, which it definitely is. You spend so much time crawling up hills at low speeds that aerodynamics goes quite far down the list of priorities. Comfort and enjoyment when climbing is probably the number one thing for me now.