Lightning P-38
Re: Lightning P-38
Always interesting if riding with friends on uprights; ask them to never get out the saddle uphill and see how they get on.
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belgiangoth
- Posts: 1696
- Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm
Re: Lightning P-38
I think an issue the P38 has is that it's designed functionally first and thus doesn't look sexy.
It's positive is that it's designed function over form.
It's positive is that it's designed function over form.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
Re: Lightning P-38
I think there's something to the difference in position though. On an upright I only ever get out the saddle for a comfort break - I ride up hills no matter how steep sitting down. I still find it easier for the same power as I do on a recumbent, and it's less strain on the muscles. Not sure why. Possibly just a neuromuscular adaptation and I need to work more on technique again after a long break from recumbents.Blondie wrote: 15 Oct 2025, 6:30pm Always interesting if riding with friends on uprights; ask them to never get out the saddle uphill and see how they get on.
Re: Lightning P-38
Im faster up my local hills in my P38 compared to my road bike. So yeah some adaption for you yet. Unless of course you hsve a stupidly light road bike.
Re: Lightning P-38
I'm wondering if the Phantom D model might suit me. It can accommodate Big Apple tyres on 20/26 wheels and the seat looks better in some ways than the current P-38 seat . But would it out perform a Giro 20?
Re: Lightning P-38
It suppose it depends on what it was you didn't like on the P-38. Is it mainly the clearance for larger tyres which appeals? From what I've picked up, I think the Phantom is a little bit 'softer' than the P-38, which probably means a smoother ride and less performance, but there's probably not a huge difference between the two models.
I thought the current P-38 seat (or maybe it's the Voyager seat) was based on the Phantom seat. I haven't been able to spot (m)any differences from the photos I've seen. I think the P-38 seats, like the frames, may be available in a wider range of sizes.
I've got a Giro 26ATT (which I haven't ridden in years), but I haven't tried a Giro 20/26. One of the advantages of the Bacchetta is the availability of different seats depending on how reclined you like to ride. My Giro 26ATT was fast (probably moreso than a P-38) with a reclined (probably around 20 degrees) Euromesh seat, but that introduced problems of weight distribution leading to light steering. Also, with a stick bike the distance to the ground increases the further forward you have the seat. I might be wrong, but I wouldn't have thought a Phantom with Big Apples would be particularly fast, and without the spaceframe construction of the P-38 I'm not sure if it would be any more efficient than a Giro when cranking out the effort on climbs.
If you're planning on touring with the bike, then an underseat rack is available for the Giro.
I thought the current P-38 seat (or maybe it's the Voyager seat) was based on the Phantom seat. I haven't been able to spot (m)any differences from the photos I've seen. I think the P-38 seats, like the frames, may be available in a wider range of sizes.
I've got a Giro 26ATT (which I haven't ridden in years), but I haven't tried a Giro 20/26. One of the advantages of the Bacchetta is the availability of different seats depending on how reclined you like to ride. My Giro 26ATT was fast (probably moreso than a P-38) with a reclined (probably around 20 degrees) Euromesh seat, but that introduced problems of weight distribution leading to light steering. Also, with a stick bike the distance to the ground increases the further forward you have the seat. I might be wrong, but I wouldn't have thought a Phantom with Big Apples would be particularly fast, and without the spaceframe construction of the P-38 I'm not sure if it would be any more efficient than a Giro when cranking out the effort on climbs.
If you're planning on touring with the bike, then an underseat rack is available for the Giro.
Re: Lightning P-38
To me the Phantom just looks like a P38 but with all the bits that make a P38 good taken away.
BB at the end of a wobbly pipe, no space frame. These are the 2 missing things that make the P38 work so well in my opinion.
If you didn't get on with the P38 this would seem a risky buy, with inferior performance and a seat that may or may not work for you.
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BB at the end of a wobbly pipe, no space frame. These are the 2 missing things that make the P38 work so well in my opinion.
If you didn't get on with the P38 this would seem a risky buy, with inferior performance and a seat that may or may not work for you.
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Re: Lightning P-38
Which is why I went with the P-38. But the Phantom seat mesh fit might be more stable, and the seat has more adjustment. Whilst the frame is not triangulated, the chain line is kept close to the frame so bending forces are reduced. I had a Giro 20 and found getting on and off a bit of a struggle. I think the Phantom's seat is lower.nobrakes wrote: 21 Oct 2025, 5:46pm To me the Phantom just looks like a P38 but with all the bits that make a P38 good taken away.
BB at the end of a wobbly pipe, no space frame. These are the 2 missing things that make the P38 work so well in my opinion.
If you didn't get on with the P38 this would seem a risky buy, with inferior performance and a seat that may or may not work for you.
Re: Lightning P-38
A 2015 review of the Phantom prior to the switch to disc brakes, https://www.bentrideronline.com/?p=9922, by Bryan Ball who knows his stuff when it comes to Lightning Bikes.
It does sound a bit "darty" with a shorter wheelbase than the Giro. Switching it to aerobars might help with that. Otherwise sounds good but it will all come down to whether I'd find the seat comfortable. The seat doesn't have a base so it's a sling mesh seat, though rather different in shape to Bacchetta's B3.
It does sound a bit "darty" with a shorter wheelbase than the Giro. Switching it to aerobars might help with that. Otherwise sounds good but it will all come down to whether I'd find the seat comfortable. The seat doesn't have a base so it's a sling mesh seat, though rather different in shape to Bacchetta's B3.