Request for AI use to be added to forum policy

[roubaixtuesday]

It seems that users are already passing off LLM outputs as their own.

If not now, this will definitely happen in the future.

A suggestion that guidelines viewtopic.php?t=3661 should be updated to include a stipulation that where AI generated content is used, it should be clearly credited as such and not passed off as the views of the user.

[mattheus]

Seconded.

[Jdsk]

That sounds right to me, and is similar to what we have done on some other forums.

It's also good practice to include which version of which AI tool and what input was submitted.

Jonathan

PS: There's a current thread about the harm that AI tools can do. This is a simple start that's under our control.

[Nearholmer]

Definitely, although it does depend on the willingness of those who might “pass off” AI outputs as their own to attribute honestly, so a tad fragile as a protection.

It does open a broader philosophical question about how many of our own thoughts are truly original, so whether we ought to attribute to the original thinkers behind the contents of our every utterance, but maybe we don’t even want to try to look into that deep pit. I’d wager that Cugel will say it’s full of a writhing mass of memes, each ready to worm its way into our heads.

[mjr]

AI slop from LLMs should be banned from the forum, or at least members should be given a way to filter it out without the work of adding each planet-polluting water-wasting user of it to the ignore/zoes list. If not, this forum will tend to become bots talking to each other in great volume and inaccuracy that no humans can withstand.

[mattheus]

AI slop from LLMs should be banned from the forum, or at least members should be given a way to filter it out without the work of adding each planet-polluting water-wasting user of it to the ignore/zoes list. If not, this forum will tend to become bots talking to each other in great volume and inaccuracy that no humans can withstand.

Although I can't see it happening, I'd happily vote for this too!

[cycle tramp]

Definitely, although it does depend on the willingness of those who might “pass off” AI outputs as their own to attribute honestly, so a tad fragile as a protection.

It does open a broader philosophical question about how many of our own thoughts are truly original?

Good point, and very well made. In answer to your question, being a complete dullard, I very much doubt if I've had a single original idea, ever in my entire life. So credit where credits due;

Philosophy, and religion - influenced by Richard Bach (writer) Alistair Crowley (might have got his name wrong) Gandhi, Toaist and Buddhist texts.

Politics - influenced by Alan Moore (writer) Dr 'Maz' Harris (writer and Hells Angel, person... now deceased), 'Crazy' Odgie (writer and motorcycle builder/mechanic)

Social outlook - influenced by the bands 'levellers' and 'new model army', as well as the artist behind the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon strip, James May, Ian Mutch, and a few others.

Bike design ideas - Brucey (aided also by bitter experience).

Sorry folks, I'm less of a person, but more a patchwork of other people's ideas

[Cugel]

Definitely, although it does depend on the willingness of those who might “pass off” AI outputs as their own to attribute honestly, so a tad fragile as a protection.

It does open a broader philosophical question about how many of our own thoughts are truly original, so whether we ought to attribute to the original thinkers behind the contents of our every utterance, but maybe we don’t even want to try to look into that deep pit. I’d wager that Cugel will say it’s full of a writhing mass of memes, each ready to worm its way into our heads.

Indeed.

As you know, I personally have come to feel that language itself is an AI, as are many of the large constructs that are based on language such as religion and ideologies; but also the many lower level in-built assumptions of any language and its currently agreed meanings, known as an episteme. A huge of amount of "what I think" is actually what a long-evolved memeplexes installed in our brains from the day we were born into this or that culture.

So, in one way, every post we make is in some sense a product of an LLM - one installed and running in our heads rather on some silicon chips. But some (maybe even me!) will insist that something in our brain operations allows us to be a critic of memeplex AIs we've had installed by our parents, neighbours, skools, workplaces and the many armatures of the mass media.

A "good post" in a forum is surely one that not only reiterates what our installed memeplexes tell us but examines, questions, tests and perhaps even rejects aspects of them. Sometimes competing memeplexes (points of view) cause this effect but the best of our wetware examinations, tests et al of notions are perhaps those we form from our experiences ..... the antics of our bodies in the physical world ....... even though experiences themselves might be seen & felt through a memeplex pair of spectacles; or limited by a memeplex pair of blinker/blinders.

**********
My own objection to machine LLM posts is that they aren't based on any experience and are generally posted without being subject by the poster to any amendment after their own critical parsing of what the LLM contains. If the AI generating an LLM post was analogous to a real human (i.e. able to experience and self-question in the way that we do) their LLM pugles and blathers might be worth consideration. But an LLM construct made entirely in some silicon processors, even if it is reiterating language originally constructed by an experiencing human, is always likely to be just flim-flam, pap and essentially without any deep meaning or insight.

Moreover, even a human-like AI used to make posts will at the same time be making us stupid, as we don't bother doing any critical thinking ourselves. A bit like a certain poster just repeating a string of newspap cliches from some gutter press rag he's become addicted to. As another poster remarks, the forum would soon become bot-to-bot "conversations" with poor little naïve humans occasionally trying to reason with something that doesn't do reasoning .... and is as inexperienced as the mirror on one's bathroom wall.

***********
So, if possible, weed them out, discourage them and, if necessary, poke fun at them.

Consider .... when a satnav makes us too stupid to self-navigate the world in orienteering fashion, we might (in a worse case scenario) drive over a cliff or the wrong way down a motorway. Relying on LLM to instruct one's beliefs and behaviours will surely have similar effects. Reading the LLMs of mass media - the gutterpress and antisocial meeja, foe example, certainly seems to do that already.

[al_yrpal]

Well, its the age old dilemma folks, the internet is turning us all into robotic followers! It just like your sat nav, you will lose the ability to follow a map. Lets not get started on LLMs (had to look that up) just relax and listen to the Eagles or something....

Al

As someone remarked I am easily confused with AI!

https://youtu.be/uq-gYOrU8bA?si=vWILIPjvp_7NorkE

[cycle tramp]

Definitely, although it does depend on the willingness of those who might “pass off” AI outputs as their own to attribute honestly, so a tad fragile as a protection.

It does open a broader philosophical question about how many of our own thoughts are truly original, so whether we ought to attribute to the original thinkers behind the contents of our every utterance, but maybe we don’t even want to try to look into that deep pit. I’d wager that Cugel will say it’s full of a writhing mass of memes, each ready to worm its way into our heads.

Indeed.

As you know, I personally have come to feel that language itself is an AI, as are many of the large constructs that are based on language such as religion and ideologies; but also the many lower level in-built assumptions of any language and its currently agreed meanings, known as an episteme. A huge of amount of "what I think" is actually what a long-evolved memeplexes installed in our brains from the day we were born into this or that culture.

So, in one way, every post we make is in some sense a product of an LLM - one installed and running in our heads rather on some silicon chips. But some (maybe even me!) will insist that something in our brain operations allows us to be a critic of memeplex AIs we've had installed by our parents, neighbours, skools, workplaces and the many armatures of the mass media.

A "good post" in a forum is surely one that not only reiterates what our installed memeplexes tell us but examines, questions, tests and perhaps even rejects aspects of them.

Absolutely... one only has to look at the memeplex's which are already in our heads, things such as
'Thinner, harder tyres are faster', 'steel bike frames are heavy', '26 wheels are dead', 'more gears are better' and so on, to see how programmed we are..
..then we get into the wider sphere of Monotheism, which advises that 'there are good and bad people', 'women are second class citizens' and that 'if you don't love God you will go to hell*'
(Which is why I found easten religions more interesting, especially the meme that 'there are no good or bad people, only choices made out of love, fear or ignorance).
And beyond that we have 'Economic progress is the only way to ensure a happy lifestyle' along with 'buy new stuff - it will make you happier'

(*Which I think is code for being spoken at by great lengths by American, right wing, Christian fundamentalists, about how birth control, LGBT people and Muslims make baby Jesus cry).

[cycle tramp]

It does open a broader philosophical question about how many of our own thoughts are truly original, so whether we ought to attribute to the original thinkers behind the contents of our every utterance, but maybe we don’t even want to try to look into that deep pit. I’d wager that Cugel will say it’s full of a writhing mass of memes, each ready to worm its way into our heads.

Still one of my favourite films. Here's the ultimate clip from the film, Heretic https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=72-5rMRKN9s (sorry about the finger and stabbing bit)

[Manc33]

What about this for the rule:

Use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) Tools

Posts that include or are derived in whole or in part from content generated by Artificial Intelligence (AI) systems (such as ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, Copilot, or similar tools) must clearly acknowledge this within the post. The acknowledgement should include the name and version of the AI tool used and a brief description of the prompt or input that produced the material. AI-assisted contributions should not be represented as solely the personal views or original work of the posting user. Failure to disclose AI involvement may be treated as misrepresentation and subject to moderation.

(This rule text was generated by ChatGPT hahaha!)