Greatest ever uk frame builder?

[lithoman]

Tom Board built for Paris, Condor, Evans, Fred Dean and loads more.
Bill Grey Claud Butler
Vic Braysher Condor and others
Wally Green in his own name and prolific trade builder
Stan Pike
Harry Quinn

[Victor]

So pretty much every custom frame builder in the UK except for Ellis Briggs is or was the greatest? Even the one's most will never have heard of.

[jay]

Bill Hurlow gets my vote

[peetee]

So pretty much every custom frame builder in the UK except for Ellis Briggs is or was the greatest? Even the one's most will never have heard of.

I have 3 Ellis Briggs frames. One has very thin lugs which would have required a very skilled builder.
Of the other two, one is awaiting wheels, the other was obtained at a very low price as it has a cracked bottom bracket shell. Therefore I can’t comment on their ride qualities but can say that neither have the sort of cheap n chunky lugs and thin BB threads of the sort you would see on a mainstream UK builder of the time. Although I will concede that the cracked BB is a strange issue that may be build-related.

[Victor]

OK, It was a feeble attempt at humour given the recent woes at Ellis Briggs, not meant to offend anyone.

[peetee]

OK, It was a feeble attempt at humour given the recent woes at Ellis Briggs, not meant to offend anyone.

I guessed that. No offence taken.

[Cowsham]

[Victor]

I think Singular frames are made in Taiwan, not that that's a bad thing.

[drossall]

So pretty much every custom frame builder in the UK ....... is or was the greatest? Even the ones most will never have heard of.

Pretty-much so, I would say. When I joined my first club, it was still the case that no two bikes were ever alike, because every self-respecting rider had built individually-selected frame and parts, usually personally rather than through a shop. Even if some of us had choices constrained by budgets, and bikes that were the product of gradual upgrades of parts over time. Richer riders might have complete group sets, but often there'd be a deliberate choice of particular gears, brakes, chain sets or whatever to meet the rider's requirements.

So yes, everyone had a different opinion, and yes, that was often in favour of one of various local or regional builders that weren't so well known elsewhere. In our area, Harry Hall, Harry Quinn, Brian Rourke, some Mercians, one or two Riva Sports (he didn't produce many), I think there was one Cyril Bardsley, and a couple of us had Aendes. One or two mass-market Claud Butler or Holdsworth 531 frames too - one member was known as Claud because he'd ridden one for so long. Roberts, Argos, Evans (then a London builder) and others rarer, and possibly rather exotic, because it was a long way to go to get one, even if the latter was on the front of Richard's Bicycle Book.

[Victor]

That makes perfect sense, people bought into what was available locally, but it also means the original question is more or less unanswerable.

[drossall]

It's inherently and obviously unanswerable. Firstly, "greatest" is not defined. The one frame I've bought isn't enough evidence of consistent greatness. There is no measure for consistent greatness. In theory, "sold most" is evidence of good, but often it means "made to the right budget and well-marketed". There can't even be anyone who has ridden all the brands mentioned here, to offer an opinion based on one frame from each that might have been made on an off-day.

So I think what I described is really how the question gets answered. Along with the fact that we were lucky to have so many great builders from whom to choose

[scottg]

[snip]
So I think what I described is really how the question gets answered. Along with the fact that we were lucky to have so many great builders from whom to choose

Ask Mario Vaz ?
If you want to know which builder is good at making bikes*, ask a frame painter.
They blast them down to bare metal and check alignment.
*Fit and handling aren't knowable for a frame painter.

[Cowsham]

I think Singular frames are made in Taiwan, not that that's a bad thing.

Looks the danglies though. Same in the flesh it's an even more desirable thing to covet. -- some day.

[Brucey]

my vote might go to Chas. Roberts junior; OK, so latterly, he may not have laid hands on every 'Roberts' branded frame, but despite this, I've never seen one that was badly made.

[JohnW]

Dear me - there are names there that I'd not heard before!!!!!!!!
I've had hand-built to measure frames - from three builders - Pennine, Ellis-Briggs and Mercian.
Three Pennines, one Ellis-Briggs and one Mercian. The first was 1975/6 Pennine which was written off in a smash - I had another Pennine, can't remember the year but late 1980s, which also lost it's life with a car, and my Mercian which Was bought with the indemnity settlement from the above smash, and which was polished, built up mileage and was treasured until covid struck - for various reasons I took that one off the road (I didn't need two bikes whilst covid restrictions prevailed) and then my dearrly loved 1981 Pennine, which rides-on.

All five were/have been totally satisfactory - comfortable and stable.

I also have a late 1960s Pennine - time-trialling frame which was given to me about 1974. It's done a couple of 25s, but the rider (me) didn't produce what it takes to get noticed. That's been in the loft since I had it re-sprayed about 1980. If anyone wants it - assuming you give it a good home, it's yours.