E tandem advice

[cpedw]

Looking for wisdom and recent experience. We are aging tandemists with a 10 year old Circe Helios (the reason for 20" wheels has long since disappeared) but are feeling the need of a bit of assist. We don't do long rides or much touring. 20 miles is a long day and mainly it's for commuting-style journeys - visiting people and places, shopping and so on.

Should we look for a new machine or add electric to the Helios? If it's add-on, would front, rear wheel or BB be best?

I saw Heinzmann mentioned on the Circe website but they seem to closing down. Neodrive have received attention lately. They have a lousy trustpilot score but that's about vacuum cleaners I think!

If we go far a new one, what's the market like for a 2nd hand Helios?

Looking forward to sound advice,

Derek

[Jdsk]

If it's add-on, would front, rear wheel or BB be best?

I suggest that you make a table of the properties of each. And then decide which properties are most important to you.

The Cycling UK guide:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... d-e-cycles
but it doesn't have quite enough on those properties. I'll try to find something better.

Jonathan

PS: My recent decision for a women's solo tourer and that of others are in the forum archives. It's worth searching.

[Jdsk]

A decent list of properties:
https://leoguarbikes.com/blogs/news/mid ... ub-upgrade

Jonathan

[stodd]

Should we look for a new machine or add electric to the Helios? If it's add-on, would front, rear wheel or BB be best?

If you like the Helios definitely go for a conversion. Ready electric tandems are mostly very highly priced for what you get; I guess because it is rather a niche market.

We rode a fairly basic Viking for many years. We converted it with Woosh XF07 front wheel conversion in 2018 and rode it very happily till early this year. I was finding getting over the Viking crossbar more and more of an effort, so we bought a second hand electric Ecosmo with a rear wheel motor. I think the Ecosmo uses a Heinzmann motor (???). Ecosmo bought ready electric are very overpriced, but £500 second hand seemed a good choice,

People often don't like front wheel drive; partly because it can easily scrub/slip on poor uphill surfaces. This is much less of an issue on a tandem because of the different weight distribution. A plus for front wheel drive is you effectively get two wheel drive (front motor, rear stoker and you), and this has often helped us in slight uphill wet grass where the rear wheel lost traction and the front pulled us through. A potential negative of front wheel is change to steering. This has not worried us at all. I'd be very careful with front hub drive on a tandem unless the forks are robust steel.

The Ecosmo is even more basic than our Viking was, but suits us very well. We rarely do more than 10 mile rides these days. We tried a Helios but my wife found the riding position a bit cramped and I wasn't that comfortable on the front. Very much a personal comments. I don't think I'd want to do any more than 20 miles on the Ecosmo.

Both the XF07 and our Ecosmo motor are somewhat underpowered for a tandem. A problem with hub motors (front or rear) is that they don't take advantage of the gearing. As you hit a steep hill it may slow down; a motor at lower speed is less efficient so you can quickly lose much of the assistance when you need it most. Nevertheless. they are enough for us; we haven't had to get off and walk yet, but are prepared to do so if needed!. Winchester is a bit hilly but not too bad. A plus of hub drives is that they almost always allow you to keep the full original gearing for the effort you put in.

If you go for a conversion we (any many others) highly recommend Woosh with their excellent customer service. Especially important for a first conversion. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/

If you are any near Winchester and want to try the Ecosmo and/or the Viking just to get a bit more of a feel for different choices send me a private message (near the top right of the forum page).

[BobSweet]

We took the plunge and went for an electric tandem and it is great. We got an Orbit from JD Tandems near Skipton (Tandems.co.uk). I toyed with the idea of an electric upgrade to an existing tandem, but the need for a lower step over made that a no go. We went for a test ride and decided to commit there and then. They have some test models you can try. Jamie was very patient listening to our needs, and we took one for a test ride, there is a nice tea shop 5 or 6 miles away. So if you can get to Skipton give it a try.

We mainly use the electric on the up hill and just use people power on the flat, but there are some nice things:
Head Wind - No longer an issue
Busy bit of road, just turn up the power.
You can put the electric on for a faster start, good sometimes on hill starts and traffic lights. No more lights changing when you leave a gap.
Dogs - Bye Bye

We went for the larger battery, the 100 mile range on lowest power is great, recharge once every week or so.

[SimonCelsa]

Very similar to what stodd says upthread.

I converted our basic Viking tandem to front hub motor several years ago (Woosh XF07) and it's still in almost daily use today, either taking the missus to work or picking my youngest daughter up from school.

Never had any problem with the front hub motor wheel with regards loss of traction.

An old photo of what's been a fantastic machine since initial purchase back in December 2009; it will be a shame when it finally gives up the ghost: