I have two bikes - a Pompino fixed gear which I owned from a frameset 20+ years ago and a Catrike 700, new to me a couple years ago (but second hand).
I have recently owned a lovely geared bike (second hand - utter steal - Argos custom steel with Campag gearing) which a friend liked much more than I did and he now has it and a Speedmachine (another excellent deal second hand, but not a bike for me).
I am considering a third bike. I would love a Greenspeed Aero, but a bike that is much like my Catrike makes little sense and I don't ride my trike enough as it is to justify a second or an upgrade. I keep thinking I should try a highracer, but I never took to two wheels recumbent and I can only see it occupying an unhappy place between my other bikes (less practical than my fixie and less enjoyable than the trike).
I am quite taken by a Moulton - but that price for something that is overengineered to match the performance of a standard diamond frame, am I mad? Also, should I wait 5 years for front disks to become ubiquitous on Moultons? In upwrong bikes I have never explored Titanium or CF - would an adventure road bike in either make more sense than a Moulton?
(or should I wait another 10 years and then get an ebike?).
N=3
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belgiangoth
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm
N=3
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
Re: N=3
Well, you are missing a geared upright which does seem to be a glaring omission. I'd pass on titanium and CF frames - no soul, Sounds like you weren't taken with the Argos custom steel. A Moulton or a Birdy might plug the hole. At least they don't take much space and are train-friendly.
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belgiangoth
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm
Re: N=3
Well, I figured a Moulton would be somewhat practical in a different way from my Fixie.
Thing is, if you love the engineering of Moultons, thee gineering of CF frames is, if done right, really clever.
Thing is, if you love the engineering of Moultons, thee gineering of CF frames is, if done right, really clever.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
Re: N=3
I'd go for a Moulton, or perhaps a Dursley Pedersen, I am circumspect about small wheeled bicycles.
Almost bought a Pashley copy many years ago to take touring by air when going abroad,but opted instead for boring Dawes Hybrid, disposable should it get mangaled in the aircraft hold, easier to fix too if necessary.
But I do like the engineèing approach of a space framed bike
Almost bought a Pashley copy many years ago to take touring by air when going abroad,but opted instead for boring Dawes Hybrid, disposable should it get mangaled in the aircraft hold, easier to fix too if necessary.
But I do like the engineèing approach of a space framed bike
A laid back, low down, layabout recumbent triker!
Re: N=3
Carbontrikes is a work of art. I've ridden a carbon Trek Modena. Boring. I'm tempted by a Moulton SST. If you wanted something different, a Tern Short Haul. It can be stored vertically.belgiangoth wrote: 30 Nov 2025, 9:43pm Well, I figured a Moulton would be somewhat practical in a different way from my Fixie.
Thing is, if you love the engineering of Moultons, thee gineering of CF frames is, if done right, really clever.i
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deeferdonk
- Posts: 513
- Joined: 11 May 2019, 2:50pm
Re: N=3
Carpe diem!Also, should I wait 5 years for front disks to become ubiquitous on Moultons? In upwrong bikes I have never explored Titanium or CF - would an adventure road bike in either make more sense than a Moulton?
(or should I wait another 10 years and then get an ebike?).
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a.twiddler
- Posts: 485
- Joined: 4 Jun 2009, 12:17am
Re: N=3
I'd held back from advising someone with limited space about n + 1 but as others have plunged in here goes. As far as trikes go, I would think improving on what a Catrike 700 does would be only a matter of degree. You can push the speedy light trike concept only to a certain point. But the Greenspeed might just be different in some other way which enhances the experience of riding them both. Like everything, you can't tell until you've tried them.
An all round upright touring type bike with a good range of gears might be the thing that is different enough to be enjoyable. Would be versatile enough for some off road. Certainly a safer bet than a high racer in terms of selling on if it doesn't work out.
A folding bike is a pretty safe bet too. It's the sort of thing that you often didn't realise you needed until you'd got one. Rather than a Brompton, which is an ingenious design in its own right, but expensive if you don't have a specific need for one, I'd thought about something like one of the Dahon Speed models in steel. Reputedly sporty for a folder, adaptable to your own needs, different enough to hold your interest. Only available used now, AFAIK. Plenty of other light aluminium folders of similar design about, too. There are minimalist folders, and less portable ones that you could tour on. Just because something folds, doesn't mean it has to handle like a blancmange.
An all round upright touring type bike with a good range of gears might be the thing that is different enough to be enjoyable. Would be versatile enough for some off road. Certainly a safer bet than a high racer in terms of selling on if it doesn't work out.
A folding bike is a pretty safe bet too. It's the sort of thing that you often didn't realise you needed until you'd got one. Rather than a Brompton, which is an ingenious design in its own right, but expensive if you don't have a specific need for one, I'd thought about something like one of the Dahon Speed models in steel. Reputedly sporty for a folder, adaptable to your own needs, different enough to hold your interest. Only available used now, AFAIK. Plenty of other light aluminium folders of similar design about, too. There are minimalist folders, and less portable ones that you could tour on. Just because something folds, doesn't mean it has to handle like a blancmange.
Re: N=3
Moultons are great to ride! I find mine as quick as a diamond frame and they seem to 'float' uphill.
If you want to test ride I have one in North Yorkshire you can try. Disks - talk to the factory as they are built by some very approachable artisans down near Bristol. Mine is capable of having a rear disk.
Amongst the bikes (& trike)I've owned are a Flying Gate and a Windcheetah, the Moulton is an interesting machine.
If you want to test ride I have one in North Yorkshire you can try. Disks - talk to the factory as they are built by some very approachable artisans down near Bristol. Mine is capable of having a rear disk.
Amongst the bikes (& trike)I've owned are a Flying Gate and a Windcheetah, the Moulton is an interesting machine.
Re: N=3
I have a Moulton SST 11 as my general purpose hack-bike. While I like the various bits of thinking and engineering the main reason I have one is I find it's just a great ride. It's a great jack of all trades (master of none) bike, comfortable, fast enough for my need, takes enough luggage for most jobs, easy on and off thanks to the step-over frame and the handling is great. It manhandles relatively well as the small wheels means it fits into/through tight spaces. Separability isn't something I use much, but it's handy from time to time.
Years back I was over at Kinetics with a pal who wanted to try some recumbents and there was a Bridgestone Moulton so I had a spin, and really liked it, but couldn't justify it and for some years that was that. On a subsequent visit to get some brazing done on my Brompton I had planned on playing on the recumbent demo bikes, but there was a trade-in space frame AM14, so being curious I gave it a quick run round the block... and then carried on, and on. I decided there and then that at some point I'd get a space frame Moulton.
I picked up a second hand TSR8 from eBay and despite it being limited to narrow tyres (dual pivot brakes and mudguards didn't allow more) I really enjoyed it for over a decade. A couple of years ago it was getting a bit grubby and faced with the idea of spending a fair bit on it or spending more on better, I went for the SST. No regrets, it's a lovely bike that I really enjoy riding, and with 40 mm tyres addresses the main problem I had with the TSR.
People do worry about small wheels, as long as you're not doing quite chunky off-road I don't have any particular issues aside from less choice of tyres (I wouldn't buy a 17"/369 Moulton, not because the smaller wheels are bad in use but because the available tyre choice is poor, the TSR and SST are both 20"/406).
At the last Pedal on Parliament demo in Edinburgh I spotted a chap on a Pedersen, and as he'd always wanted a go on a Moulton and me on a Pedersen we swapped for a bit. We both really enjoyed the change of bike. The Pedersen was the most immediately comfortable upright bike I've ever ridden. Possible issues with the Pedersen are limited setup options (I think you're pretty much stuck with "upright and dignified") because of the saddle type and position. You also need the right size with limited variability in rider height, while a Moulton is one-size-fits-most.
Another option is the R&M Birdy, a full suspension folder. 18" wheels and a much stiffer frame than a Brompton or Dahon with no hinge in the main frame spar it rides really well and is a folder rather than a disassembling frame like the Moulton. Also non-cheap, but you do get what you pay for.
Pete.
Years back I was over at Kinetics with a pal who wanted to try some recumbents and there was a Bridgestone Moulton so I had a spin, and really liked it, but couldn't justify it and for some years that was that. On a subsequent visit to get some brazing done on my Brompton I had planned on playing on the recumbent demo bikes, but there was a trade-in space frame AM14, so being curious I gave it a quick run round the block... and then carried on, and on. I decided there and then that at some point I'd get a space frame Moulton.
I picked up a second hand TSR8 from eBay and despite it being limited to narrow tyres (dual pivot brakes and mudguards didn't allow more) I really enjoyed it for over a decade. A couple of years ago it was getting a bit grubby and faced with the idea of spending a fair bit on it or spending more on better, I went for the SST. No regrets, it's a lovely bike that I really enjoy riding, and with 40 mm tyres addresses the main problem I had with the TSR.
People do worry about small wheels, as long as you're not doing quite chunky off-road I don't have any particular issues aside from less choice of tyres (I wouldn't buy a 17"/369 Moulton, not because the smaller wheels are bad in use but because the available tyre choice is poor, the TSR and SST are both 20"/406).
At the last Pedal on Parliament demo in Edinburgh I spotted a chap on a Pedersen, and as he'd always wanted a go on a Moulton and me on a Pedersen we swapped for a bit. We both really enjoyed the change of bike. The Pedersen was the most immediately comfortable upright bike I've ever ridden. Possible issues with the Pedersen are limited setup options (I think you're pretty much stuck with "upright and dignified") because of the saddle type and position. You also need the right size with limited variability in rider height, while a Moulton is one-size-fits-most.
Another option is the R&M Birdy, a full suspension folder. 18" wheels and a much stiffer frame than a Brompton or Dahon with no hinge in the main frame spar it rides really well and is a folder rather than a disassembling frame like the Moulton. Also non-cheap, but you do get what you pay for.
Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Re: N=3
I’ve got a 35 year old Moulton AM14 that I’ve owned for all but 2 years of its existence - bought it second hand back in 1992. It’s had a fair bit of modifications over the years and technically speaking the only original bits are the frame and seatpost! It’s still my favourite bike and I have used the “demountable” feature plenty of times - if I was getting a newer Moulton, it would have to have this. However I am *not ever* parting with my beloved AM which in the past has taken me as far as North Africa.
But I was going to suggest a Brompton… despite having a 20” Dahon Mu folder I much prefer the Brompton. Very different from your other machines - but that’s the point. Think of your bikes as a jigsaw puzzle, the Brompton fits into all the bits you ordinarily wouldn’t or couldn’t use one of your other bikes. I got my first one in 1995 (no stranger to small wheels, you see!) and replaced it in 2009 when they brought out the BWR 6 speed hub combo and rejigged the frame design - a huge improvement on the predecessor. I still have it and having had a go on the newer model C line I have no plans to change. These days the Brompton is my most used bike, because it’s the one I usually have with me.
One big advantage you have is that you can test ride a Brompton for very little. Look for your nearest Brompton Dock, sign up on the app (I think there was a nominal cost of £1 registration ) and you can then hire a 3 speed Brompton C-line (including lights and dynamo) for £5 a day… for about as long as you want. They also have monthly and yearly subscription options for both standard and electric Bromptons. Either way you will get a good idea if a Brompton will work for you.
When I was adjusting the set up of my bike a couple of months ago, I hired a Brompton Dock bike for a few days for comparison purposes - the one I got was in excellent condition both cosmetically and mechanically. It’s well worth a try. You can’t do that with any of the other suggestions!
But I was going to suggest a Brompton… despite having a 20” Dahon Mu folder I much prefer the Brompton. Very different from your other machines - but that’s the point. Think of your bikes as a jigsaw puzzle, the Brompton fits into all the bits you ordinarily wouldn’t or couldn’t use one of your other bikes. I got my first one in 1995 (no stranger to small wheels, you see!) and replaced it in 2009 when they brought out the BWR 6 speed hub combo and rejigged the frame design - a huge improvement on the predecessor. I still have it and having had a go on the newer model C line I have no plans to change. These days the Brompton is my most used bike, because it’s the one I usually have with me.
One big advantage you have is that you can test ride a Brompton for very little. Look for your nearest Brompton Dock, sign up on the app (I think there was a nominal cost of £1 registration ) and you can then hire a 3 speed Brompton C-line (including lights and dynamo) for £5 a day… for about as long as you want. They also have monthly and yearly subscription options for both standard and electric Bromptons. Either way you will get a good idea if a Brompton will work for you.
When I was adjusting the set up of my bike a couple of months ago, I hired a Brompton Dock bike for a few days for comparison purposes - the one I got was in excellent condition both cosmetically and mechanically. It’s well worth a try. You can’t do that with any of the other suggestions!
Re: N=3
The G is a better ride, but of course a less compact fold. You choose, you lose...UpWrong wrote: 3 Dec 2025, 7:14am The new Brompton G line is a much better ride by all accounts. I didn't get on with my Brompton, too twitchy.
I have and like a standard Brompton, very useful for mixed-mode jobs and it's a good general urban bike. Quite a lot of folk find them twitchy, quite a lot of others don't (I'm in the latter camp), so a test ride is worth it.
Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
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belgiangoth
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm
Re: N=3
not much love for a ti or CF bike, but then I should expect that in the non-standard forum...I don't think I need/want a folder - unless I find a one-way tikkit.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
Re: N=3
I'm really not fussed by frame material. I don't think I've ever worried about what a potential purchase was made of, only that it be properly built for the job at hand. Had any of my bikes been available in CF or Ti at prices I could afford with the same or better level of functional utility I'd have been happy to get them.belgiangoth wrote: 3 Dec 2025, 9:50pmnot much love for a ti or CF bike, but then I should expect that in the non-standard forum...
Much as "recumbent" isn't a functional class of bike (I tour on a recumbent because it suits my touring needs, not because it's a recumbent), nor is "CF bike" or "Ti bike". So my aluminium cargo bike is for cargo lugging, not for "aluminiuming"! In other words, nothing wrong with CF or Ti as long as they fit the design and functional job.
Pete
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
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belgiangoth
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm
Re: N=3
I could buy a CF all road bike, a ti all road bike or an SST - all would be geared bikes with a general usefulness, apparently a level of comfort bestowed by the frame (material/design) and a price tag making it an exceptional purchase.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.