Cycling using trains (in UK and EU)

[mjr]

There's a brief mention of bicycle spaces in this report on the new eurostar rolling stock -- though we have to hold our breath until 2031... (And Mr Seat61 is wondering, on Bluesky, how many of these trains will actually be used on the UK route, rather than the old Thalys routes; though actually, bike spaces on those would also be progress). https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -from-2031

I believe that Eurostar's strategy is to have a single build for both Channel Tunnel services (replacing the e300 stock) and mainland Europe services (i.e. currently served by old Thalys stock). Eurostar have 11 e300 sets and 17 e320 sets, so even if they replace all of the e300s with the new trains the majority of Channel Tunnel services will still be served by e320. Given that the ex-Thalys PBA and PBKA stock are older than the e300s, I would expect that they would be replaced first.

They haven't ordered enough yet to replace all ex-Thalys and also run through cross-Channel. The talk of maintaining them at Stratford's Temple Mills is likely a ploy to prevent the regulator allowing other companies to use it. See Working out what Eurostar is going to do - based on the numbers, not what the company says - Jon Worth – https://jonworth.eu/working-out-what-eu ... pany-says/

[Will]

It is common practice within the rail industry for a train company to sign a framework agreement with a train manufacturer and then place several orders over several years under that framework agreement. Eurostar need to raise the finance for these trains and it is much easier to raise the finance for several smaller orders than it is to raise the finance for one big order for all of them, all at once. Eurostar will probably be able to wait 2-3 years before placing a second order without impacting on the delivery schedule.

There is a BBC interview with Gwendoline Cazenave (Eurostar CEO) on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw6oJQl0QEE

She states "For instance, between London and Paris, we're going to add three frequencies with these new trains."

The interviewer asks: "You're going to be facing more competition within the tunnel itself, and some are concerned that by putting on these double-decker trains, the new capacity, the new depots that might be needed to accommodate them, that you could undermine the ability for competitors to operate. What do you say to that?"

"That's called a business strategy mate" would have been my response.

Will

[mjr]

She states "For instance, between London and Paris, we're going to add three frequencies with these new trains."

What does that even mean? At the moment, London-Paris run on hourly xx31 and two-hourly xx01 frequencies, with a few moved to increase peak service but leaving gaps at other times. They can't add three new hourly or even two-hourly frequency service patterns to those with the numbers of trains they've ordered, even if there is track capacity and station border capacity is increased somehow.

Yet the interviewer doesn't question it!

[Will]

She states "For instance, between London and Paris, we're going to add three frequencies with these new trains."

What does that even mean? At the moment, London-Paris run on hourly xx31 and two-hourly xx01 frequencies, with a few moved to increase peak service but leaving gaps at other times. They can't add three new hourly or even two-hourly frequency service patterns to those with the numbers of trains they've ordered, even if there is track capacity and station border capacity is increased somehow.

Yet the interviewer doesn't question it!

I assume that what she means is that there will be 3 services per day in each direction that will be operated using the new trains rather than the e320. I don't know how many trips a day an individual train can make, but if it was possible to do 3 trips (and the trains were doubled up), then they would only need 4 of the new trains to operate that service:

Train A: London-Paris; Paris-London; London-Paris
Train B: Paris-London; London-Paris; Paris-London

Will

[mjr]

She states "For instance, between London and Paris, we're going to add three frequencies with these new trains."

What does that even mean? At the moment, London-Paris run on hourly xx31 and two-hourly xx01 frequencies, with a few moved to increase peak service but leaving gaps at other times. They can't add three new hourly or even two-hourly frequency service patterns to those with the numbers of trains they've ordered, even if there is track capacity and station border capacity is increased somehow.

Yet the interviewer doesn't question it!

I assume that what she means is that there will be 3 services per day in each direction [...]

That's a lot less than three new frequencies!

We can all assume things that contain only some of the words she said, but if you use all the words she said in the order she said them then it's gibberish!

[Will]

Virgin have been granted access to Temple Mills depot. This means they can now progress their plans to run a rival service to Eurostar:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8v5z15551o

Will

[Bmblbzzz]

Potentially good news. At least it breaks up a monopoly service. I wonder what their bike carriage will be like?

[Will]

Tickets for the first day of service (01/05/26) of the České dráhy (CD) extended service from Prague to Copenhagen have gone on sale today. This service won't start until May as there is engineering work still being carried out between Berlin and Hamburg. The existing Prague-Hamburg service has only been running as far as Berlin for this reason.

The Deutsche Bahn website shows that tickets (including bike tickets/reservations) can be purchased online:

The price difference between with a bike and without a bike is €14.16.

This is an improvement on the DSB Copenhagen-Hamburg service that requires you to phone them up to make bike reservations (see my comment on page 51).

There will be 2 services a day to Copenhagen from Prague via Hamburg Hbf (departing Hamburg Hbf at 12:28 and 16:28). The other CD trains from Prague terminate at Hamburg Hbf, There are also DSB trains from Hamburg to Copenhagen departing about 20 minutes after the CD services.

This service could be picked up at Hamburg Hbf, but the schedule for these trains also include a stop at Hamburg-Dammtor and Hamburg-Altona:

Hamburg-Altona would be a good station to pick up this service. The service includes a detour down to Hamburg-Altona to change locomotives (from a CD locomotive to a DSB locomotive). This means it has an extended stop (over 20 minutes) giving you plenty of time to board the train with your bike. Hamburg-Altona station is also a terminus station making it very easy to change platforms. This is especially helpful if there is a last minute platform change - something that can be really difficult to do at Hamburg Hbf and can result in you missing your train. Most ICE trains from the south terminate at Hamburg-Altona, so it makes the whole connection much easier and less stressful than at Hamburg Hbf.

České dráhy are receiving some new Vectron 230 multi-system locomotives that can run at 230 km/h (the existing Vectron 200 locomotives can only do 200 km/h). They are required for the section between Dresden and Berlin that has been upgraded. České dráhy have stated that they intend to use them on the entire route from Prague to Copenhagen, removing the requirement to change locomotives at Hamburg-Altona. When that happens the service would probably no longer call at Hamburg-Altona. If that is the case, then Hamburg-Dammtor would then be the best option.

Hamburg-Dammtor has two island platforms (one of which is used for S-Bahn trains), If you were arriving on an ICE then you would arrive onto the same platform (#3) that the Copenhagen train would later depart from. Hamburg-Dammtor is also only a 10-15 minute bike ride from Hamburg Hbf (if you arrived on a train that terminated there).

Once the Fehmarnbelt tunnel opens (sometime around 2030) this service will no longer call at Hamburg-Altona or Hamburg-Dammtor as the trains will depart Hamburg Hbf in the opposite direction.

There are steps to board the ComfortJet trains (the DSB Talgo trains have level boarding). The bike carriage on the ComfortJet trains has space for 12 bikes and it is possible to charge an e-bike. Some of the ComfortJet bike spaces are floor standing, and I think this may mitigate the need to lift your bike onto the train (the DSB Talgo bike spaces are all high level hooks).

The ComfortJet carriages used by České dráhy may be more comfortable than the new Talgo trains used by DSB on their Copenhagen-Hamburg Hbf service as Talgo trains have a bit of a reputation of being uncomfortable. The České dráhy train also has a proper dining car (with beer on tap), whereas the DSB Talgo train only has some vending machines. Once the Fehmarnbelt tunnel opens the comfort will be less of an issue as the journey time between Hamburg and Copenhagen will be halved, and it (and the DSB Talgo trains) will be running on upgraded tracks which should mean a smoother ride.

You should be able to do Amsterdam to Copenhagen in a single day if you depart Amsterdam at 06:00 with changes at Osnabrück and Hamburg-Altona, but I think that is a long day of travelling (almost 12 hours), and there is a risk of missing connections if any of your trains are late. There is a similar combination departing Amsterdam at 10:00, but that won't get you into Copenhagen until 21:38.

I prefer not to rely on making several connections on the same day (especially when ICE trains are involved) so I would split the journey over two days. I would overnight in Bremen and then take the ICE618 service (@09:17) or the ICE206 service (@10:17) to Hamburg-Altona and have a leisurely lunch before boarding the České dráhy (RJ384) train to Copenhagen (departing Hamburg-Altona @ 13:08).

Will

[mattheus]

Tickets for the first day of service (01/05/26) of the České dráhy (CD) extended service from Prague to Copenhagen have gone on sale today. This service won't start until May as there is engineering work still being carried out between Berlin and Hamburg.

<ton of useful info snipped!>

Forgive a potential stupid question:
What scenario are you recommending this for? Seems like a 3 day train trip from England-Copenhagen (I guess Night ferry Harwick-Hook')?

Just wanted to clarify :-)

[Will]

Tickets for the first day of service (01/05/26) of the České dráhy (CD) extended service from Prague to Copenhagen have gone on sale today. This service won't start until May as there is engineering work still being carried out between Berlin and Hamburg.

<ton of useful info snipped!>

Forgive a potential stupid question:
What scenario are you recommending this for? Seems like a 3 day train trip from England-Copenhagen (I guess Night ferry Harwick-Hook')?

Just wanted to clarify :-)

I would expect anyone looking to head to Copenhagen would either be:

Departing from Amsterdam Centraal on the ICE3 Neo Berlin service, changing at Osnabrück either onto an ICE4 heading to Hamburg, or using the RE9 regional service to Bremen, overnighting , and then getting an ICE4 to Hamburg-Altona the next morning.

or

Eurostar to Brussels, ICE3 Neo to Cologne, and then getting an ICE4 to Hamburg-Altona (possibly with an overnight stop depending on timing).

Will

[Will]

DSB are also looking at the possibility of running a direct service between Copenhagen and Amsterdam (1 train per day in each direction), but this is dependant on the Talgo 230 trains being authorised for use in the Netherlands, and so far DB have not been able to get authorisation for the Netherlands for their version of the Talgo 230 (ICE L).

Will

[pal]

DSB are also looking at the possibility of running a direct service between Copenhagen and Amsterdam (1 train per day in each direction), but this is dependant on the Talgo 230 trains being authorised for use in the Netherlands, and so far DB have not been able to get authorisation for the Netherlands for their version of the Talgo 230 (ICE L).

Will

That would be very good (esp for the north sea ferry fans...), if they can make it happen!

[mattheus]

I think this post was too good for the other thread, and belongs here:

I don’t know how you would integrate it, but interrail would seem useful.

https://www.interrail.eu/en/tripplanner

This gives a live map of UK trains, but no planner https://www.map.signalbox.io/

Don't think I've seen the live map done before - I love it!!!

[MrsHJ]

I think this post was too good for the other thread, and belongs here:

I don’t know how you would integrate it, but interrail would seem useful.

https://www.interrail.eu/en/tripplanner

This gives a live map of UK trains, but no planner https://www.map.signalbox.io/

Don't think I've seen the live map done before - I love it!!!

Super cool. The Edinburgh Plymouth service is actually running on time!

[mjr]

I think this post was too good for the other thread, and belongs here:

I don’t know how you would integrate it, but interrail would seem useful.

https://www.interrail.eu/en/tripplanner

This gives a live map of UK trains, but no planner https://www.map.signalbox.io/

Don't think I've seen the live map done before - I love it!!!

Yes, it s good as an overview but the schematic maps like https://signalmaps.co.uk/#kingsx:2102 or OpenTrainTimes or Traksy are more useful for seeing which platform your train is likely to use, often before it's shown on the departure board {but keep an eye out if you use them for that, as allocations sometimes get changed at short notice), or what's blocking the line ahead.